# How Likely Would a Dinner at Delmonico's (1890) Make You Sick? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908 "2011-05-23T15:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/21 "2011-05-24T04:23:47Z")
[Here’s](http://menus.nypl.org/menu_pages/454) Delmonico’s menu from February 26, 1900, in case anybody’s interested. It’s entirely in French, but I’ve copied it into Google Translate, and you can get the gist of things [here](http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#auto%7Cen%7CHuitres%20et%20caviar%20Russe%0APotages%0AConsomme%20Souveraine%0ATortue%20verte%20au%20claire%0AHors%20D%27oeuvre%0AMarechale%0AMousseline%0AOlives%0ARadis%0ACeleri%0APoisson%0AAigullettes%20de%20bass%20a%20la%20Normande%0APommes%20de%20terre%2C%20gastronome%0AConcombres%0ARELEVE%0ASelle%20d%27agneau%20de%20lait%2C%20sauce%20Colbert%0AFonds%20d%27artichauts%2C%20Florentine%0AFilets%20de%20poulet%20a%20la%20Perigord%0APeties%20pois%20nouveaux%0AChampignons%20sous%20cloches%0ATerrapene%20Maryland%20en%20cassolettes%0AAsperges%20nouvelles%2C%20sauce%20Hollandaise%0ASorbet%3A%20Montmorency%0ACanards%20canvas-backs%0ASalade%20de%20celeri%20aux%20ananas%0AFeuilles%20de%20foies-gras%0AGlaces%20de%20fantaisies%0AFraises%0APetits%20fours%0AAmandes%20salees%0ACAFE%0AHaut%20Sauternes%0AAmontillado%0ALiebfraumilch%0AChateau%20Langoa%0ADelbeck%20Brut%0AClos%20de%20Vougeot%0ALiqueurs%0AMineral). The New York Public Library has just started posting scanned versions of their enormous collection of old menus, and they’re asking for volunteers to transcribe them. I’ve done a bunch - it’s interesting to see what was trendy back then, how much things cost, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/22 "2011-05-24T04:50:39Z")
The menus from the last day of the RMS _Titanic_’s voyage are interesting: [Untitled](http://www.titanicstory.com/menu.htm) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/23 "2011-05-24T05:52:32Z")
One of my favorite books is H.L. Mencken **Happy Days**. He talked about growing up in Baltimore in the 1880s and 90s. He mentioned a lot of fruits and vegetables that were cheap in season and not available at all the rest of the year. It didn’t sound like store bought ice cream was that common either. Being next to Chesapeake Bay, they were well supplied with crabs, oysters and clams. A poor man could go down an catch enough crabs to feed his family in short order. I don’t recall much mention of Lobsters. I don’t think they were popular back then. His uncle Henry kept them well-supplied with duck in season. It also seemed that a lot of adult males drank enough to be considered alcoholics by current standards. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/24 "2011-05-24T07:26:59Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > [Here’s](http://menus.nypl.org/menu_pages/454) Delmonico’s menu from February 26, 1900, in case anybody’s interested. It’s entirely in French, but I’ve copied it into Google Translate, and you can get the gist of things [here](http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#auto%7Cen%7CHuitres%20et%20caviar%20Russe%0APotages%0AConsomme%20Souveraine%0ATortue%20verte%20au%20claire%0AHors%20D%27oeuvre%0AMarechale%0AMousseline%0AOlives%0ARadis%0ACeleri%0APoisson%0AAigullettes%20de%20bass%20a%20la%20Normande%0APommes%20de%20terre%2C%20gastronome%0AConcombres%0ARELEVE%0ASelle%20d%27agneau%20de%20lait%2C%20sauce%20Colbert%0AFonds%20d%27artichauts%2C%20Florentine%0AFilets%20de%20poulet%20a%20la%20Perigord%0APeties%20pois%20nouveaux%0AChampignons%20sous%20cloches%0ATerrapene%20Maryland%20en%20cassolettes%0AAsperges%20nouvelles%2C%20sauce%20Hollandaise%0ASorbet%3A%20Montmorency%0ACanards%20canvas-backs%0ASalade%20de%20celeri%20aux%20ananas%0AFeuilles%20de%20foies-gras%0AGlaces%20de%20fantaisies%0AFraises%0APetits%20fours%0AAmandes%20salees%0ACAFE%0AHaut%20Sauternes%0AAmontillado%0ALiebfraumilch%0AChateau%20Langoa%0ADelbeck%20Brut%0AClos%20de%20Vougeot%0ALiqueurs%0AMineral). > > The New York Public Library has just started posting scanned versions of their enormous collection of old menus, and they’re asking for volunteers to transcribe them. I’ve done a bunch - it’s interesting to see what was trendy back then, how much things cost, etc. I wonder how much Delmonicos cost. I know it was of the “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” but I’m curious what it was dollar wise. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/25 "2011-05-24T10:59:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The menus from the last day of the RMS _Titanic_’s voyage are interesting: [Untitled](http://www.titanicstory.com/menu.htm) Wow - that looks amazing. I can’t decide between the duck or the lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/26 "2011-05-24T14:30:11Z")
[The Big Oyster](http://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345476395/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306247338&sr=8-1) by Mark Kurlansky mentions Delmonicos a few times. Diamond Jim Brady would eat there and had a foolproof way to know when to end the meal. When he sat down, he made sure he was four inches from the table. When his stomach was tight against the edge of the table, he stopped eating. The book also mentions that oysters could indeed be shipped long distances if packed properly. This is partly because when given a sharp tap on the shell, an oyster will go into “lock down” and clam up tight. This keeps a bit of fluid in there shell which sustains it. A frenchman once described oysters as the most polite creature in the world because they knew when to keep their mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/27 "2011-05-24T15:05:14Z")
I recall an entry in Bob Hopes bio about staying safe with food at diners. There were only certain foods the actors would risk at diners. one of Hopes early vaudeville partner Lloyd Durbin died after eating a slice of cream pie. Either the diary or egg had given him food poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/28 "2011-05-24T15:16:26Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Wow - that looks amazing. I can’t decide between the duck or the lamb. hm, since squab pops in at the next course I would focus on the lamb. Maybe the beef. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/29 "2011-05-24T15:18:01Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder how much Delmonicos cost. I know it was of the “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” but I’m curious what it was dollar wise. What place was it in Hello Dolly? I believe the whole dinner for 4 was $25. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/30 "2011-05-24T15:57:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder how long oysters would live in a barrel of water. Oysters were shipped huge distances by train in those days. They were packed in barrels with layers of ice, seaweed and cornmeal – the oysters survived on the cornmeal. East Coast oysters were in fact introduced to San Francisco Bay in the late 1800s. ([Cite](http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt629004n3;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=d0e540&toc.id=d0e959&brand=calisphere)) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/31 "2011-05-24T16:17:03Z")
> [@](#): > > There were other ways of preserving food. Oysters were shipped all over the country in barrels. Delmonico’s, of course, would use fresh oysters – an extremely popular food in New York City – harvested from Long Island Sound and kept on ice (ice making had been developed in the 1850s). Ice machinery had been developed, but it was more widespread and cheaper to use ice that had been harvested from ponds in New England and kept in icehouses, insulated by sawdust. They were still doing this in many places into the 1920s. Hamilton, Mass., not that far from me, was one of the sources of ice. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/32 "2011-05-24T20:44:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The menus from the last day of the RMS _Titanic_’s voyage are interesting: [Untitled](http://www.titanicstory.com/menu.htm) I was once at a dinner party where the host and hostess hired a chef, spent about $1000 and recreated a dinner served in first class on board the Titanic. About 10 or more courses and fantastic! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/33 "2011-05-24T20:46:42Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I was once at a dinner party where the host and hostess hired a chef, spent about $1000 and recreated a dinner served in first class on board the Titanic. > > About 10 or more courses and fantastic! Did they drown the chefs in freezing water afterwards? I think it’d be cool if some chef opened a period restaurant with the periods changing upon occasion. And extra great if they used actual menus: the ones from Titanic and Delmonico’s, a Gilded Age White House reception menu, Romanov night, etc.. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/34 "2011-05-24T21:04:23Z")
Randomly interesting link about food over the centuries; it’s actually a link to many other links, so you can look through and go ‘Oooh, how DID mankind learn what foods were poisonous and which weren’t?’ or whatever: [http://www.foodtimeline.org/food1.html](http://www.foodtimeline.org/food1.html) Or hey, what were Victorian kitchens like? [http://research.calacademy.org/redirect?url=http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/kitchen/index.html](http://research.calacademy.org/redirect?url=http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/kitchen/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/35 "2011-05-24T21:14:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder how much Delmonicos cost. I know it was of the “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” but I’m curious what it was dollar wise. Here’s a link to a page showing a Delmonico’s menu from 1899: [Menu](http://www.fab-restaurants.com/content/fabulous-restaurants-online) Sounds pretty tasty. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/36 "2011-05-24T23:10:42Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > Here’s a link to a page showing a Delmonico’s menu from 1899: > > [Menu](http://www.fab-restaurants.com/content/fabulous-restaurants-online) > > Sounds pretty tasty. Thanks. Even bearing in mind the difference between $1 then and now I’m still surprised by the prices. The most expensive entree is $2.50, at the outside around $50 now, and most items are half that. There are many restaurants all over the country with much more expensive entrees than $50. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/37 "2011-05-25T00:27:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder how long oysters would live in a barrel of water. I don’t even understand the question. I put an oyster in my mouth one time\*, and since then I’ve not been able to endorse the notion that they are, in fact, food. Pretty good at being pearl factories, though. \*not in the shell, in case you’re wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/38 "2011-05-25T00:43:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Thanks. > > Even bearing in mind the difference between $1 then and now I’m still surprised by the prices. The most expensive entree is $2.50, at the outside around $50 now, and most items are half that. There are many restaurants all over the country with much more expensive entrees than $50. Yeah, but most stuff there is a la carte, so to speak. You pay separately for your garnishes, your condiments, your vegetables; that 50 bucks is for your meat, and you might pay another 25 for your veggies. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/39 "2011-05-25T11:44:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t even understand the question. I put an oyster in my mouth one time\*, and since then I’ve not been able to endorse the notion that they are, in fact, food. > > Pretty good at being pearl factories, though. > \*not in the shell, in case you’re wondering. Oysters Rockefeller is proof that God loves us. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908/40 "2011-05-25T13:25:27Z")
Oysters were served by lots of street vendors in big East Coast cities before the Civil War. As common as hot dog stands now. **BMalion** , that _Titanic_ dinner sounds wonderful. I’m envious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-would-a-dinner-at-delmonicos-1890-make-you-sick/582908.md?page=3)