# How long before computers are useless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842 "2016-07-13T19:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/21 "2016-07-14T09:23:53Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > There is already a huge amount of computer-stored data that cannot be retrieved: > > [Digital dark age - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_dark_age) You know, that’s never really bothered me. If modern archaeologists can decipher Linear B, I doubt 22nd-Century quantum AIs will have any problem reading old floppy disks (scanned, of course, using nanobots). ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/22 "2016-07-14T14:32:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know, that’s never really bothered me. If modern archaeologists can decipher Linear B, I doubt 22nd-Century quantum AIs will have any problem reading old floppy disks (scanned, of course, using nanobots). The question is whether civilization considers it worthwhile to expend the effort. Ten years ago, the medical profession was lamenting that some early storage of medical records was already obsolete. Yes, it could have been recovered, but the number of patients affected and the importance of retrieving the data was not commensurate with the cost. Remember that data will become exponentially more difficult to retrieve, precisely because it contains metadata intended to defeat any effort to retrieve it by any system that does not know the code. Maybe one solution might be to put an expiration date on security codes, so after a certain period of time, any data becomes transparent. Also, maybe someday we will become enlightened enough to get over this silly idea that in order to read the obituaries in my local paper, I have to enter an acceptably cryptic security password containing at least 12 characters including a numeral, a capital and a diacritical mark which cannot include any combinations found in my login name and have my account likned to FaceBook… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/23 "2016-07-14T15:02:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > While this is an issue, it probably pales beside the amount of data that is lost in fires, floods, warfare, etc. It also probably pales beside the amount of digital data that is lost to media degradation. > > The sovereign remedies are standardization, with backwards compatibility – MS Word will open old WordPerfect files – and offsite backup storage. If people are wise enough to make use of these simple strategies, very little data needs to be lost. > > (Only the universe and stupidity are infinite…and we’re not sure about the universe.) There’s also a huge problem with acidic paper decomposing very rapidly in libraries around the world. Apparently early industrial paper making techniques left the paper slightly acid, and as a result it’s deteriorating much faster than older and newer sorts of paper. Same basic issue , but rather than being a file format type problem, it’s a storage media degradation issue. > **[Paper conservation](https://edu.rsc.org/feature/paper-conservation/2020204.article)** > > History is written on paper and chemistry is at the heart of paper conservation ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/24 "2016-07-14T15:35:50Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > If only… > > I have a LOT of clients who have no concept of computer security. Most of them are older, but I don’t hold out much hope for younger users, who grew up when computers wee common, and treat them as magic boxes. But that isn’t computers getting less secure; it’s _users_ getting less secure. Much of what you talk about in the OP is only a problem for naive people who don’t take basic precautions. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/25 "2016-07-14T15:40:56Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a “chain of trust” built into it. The bootcode in the ROM checks that the signature is right on the kernel. The first thing the kernel does is check that all key files are signed right and there are no extraneous files anywhere. Then it finishes booting. Microsoft did this with “Secure Boot” starting with Windows 8. Some people lost their minds. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/26 "2016-07-14T15:44:43Z")
This is not at all a problem. New advances in computer security will soon make hacking, malware, viruses,spoofs, phisjing and oth%r scams oPso;ete. We cOn expev& a fut{{e of c0mp’e^~ s-cur\Fy in co`\p@ter, cha@]3 it’s funct10nK,itE or in any U!her way c\<|pr)@is\ it’s intE8(&" w|== be i&&e+a_Hl. deJ4[Ye\* !n\*. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/27 "2016-07-14T20:17:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > . . . rather than being a file format type problem, it’s a storage media degradation issue. . . . And old comp. sci. prof of mine suggested hard disks…made of glass. Small etched pits, similar to our CDs, but in hardened glass. They kind that you can even drop on concrete and it won’t break. If cathedral windows have lasted as long as they have – and they’re just crummy medieval glass – modern glass ought to last a few centuries, if not millennia! (He said that some insurance companies actually do this: instead of microfiche on plastic film, they etch on glass. But I’ve never been able to find any clear reference or cite of this.) Another thing that makes me sad is that it’s a lot harder to start learning programming than it used to be. In my day, everyone started with BASIC, and played around writing cute beginners’ programs. But there isn’t any similar “universal gateway” today. How many kids, these days, do any programming at all? (I am a programmer, and I’ve found that Android smart-phone programming is beyond my ability.) ETA: can anyone point me to a really simple and easy Android programming framework, something like “Visual Android” or the like? ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842/28 "2016-07-14T21:52:48Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And old comp. sci. prof of mine suggested hard disks…made of glass. Small etched pits, similar to our CDs, but in hardened glass. They kind that you can even drop on concrete and it won’t break. If cathedral windows have lasted as long as they have – and they’re just crummy medieval glass – modern glass ought to last a few centuries, if not millennia! > > (He said that some insurance companies actually do this: instead of microfiche on plastic film, they etch on glass. But I’ve never been able to find any clear reference or cite of this.) > > Another thing that makes me sad is that it’s a lot harder to start learning programming than it used to be. In my day, everyone started with BASIC, and played around writing cute beginners’ programs. But there isn’t any similar “universal gateway” today. How many kids, these days, do any programming at all? > > (I am a programmer, and I’ve found that Android smart-phone programming is beyond my ability.) > > ETA: can anyone point me to a really simple and easy Android programming framework, something like “Visual Android” or the like? Fully agree with you about the programming issue. BASIC was just “there” on Apple II and the first IBM personal computers which made it so easy to get started. I teach programming at a college, and we’re using the [Scratch](https://scratch.mit.edu/) language from MIT plus Python in the last half of the semester. But I also do a two- to three-hour miniclass for high schoolers to teach Android using MIT’s App Inventor 2. Based on Scratch, it’s a drag-and-drop programming environment that’s pretty complete. My miniclass is based on some of their tutorials, so in a short time they’re able to create a mini-paint program, take pictures with the camera, and share them with others via messages or Facebook. You can share your apps on the AI2 site, or send the .apk to others via email or web pages so they can install your app on their devices. The app can also be uploaded to the Google Play store. Give AI2 a look - it’s quick and easy. I also teach Android Development I & II, using Java and Android Studio. At the end of my first semester teaching Android, I told my dean that “it kicked my butt”. But it does force you to learn Java really well! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-computers-are-useless/759842.md?page=1)