# How long before the Toyota CEO commits seppuku? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 17, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344 "2010-02-17T16:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/1 "2010-02-17T16:19:57Z")
yes, this is a TIC title. but, man oh man, WTF is going on with them? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/2 "2010-02-17T16:26:22Z")
Funny thing is, it’s a worldwide recall for something that 10 people claimed happened to them, 8 of which are bad drivers, one was a fluke, and one was a real genuine problem. Now everyone else is piling on. (No, I can’t back that up. But really, if people don’t know how to shift into neutral, signal, and coast to the side of the road, that’s not completely Toyota’s fault.) ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/3 "2010-02-17T16:27:55Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > (No, I can’t back that up. But really, if people don’t know how to shift into neutral, signal, and coast to the side of the road, that’s not completely Toyota’s fault.) um, it’s their fault for manufacturing things with blatant defects. this is like saying it’s your fault for dying from e-coli tainted beef because you didn’t go to a doctor fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/4 "2010-02-17T16:30:26Z")
Does the CEO micromanage to the point where they’re looking at part designs? Give them credit for doing a recall for a problem that, so far, had affected an infinitesimally small percentage of their cars. That in itself, I would think, is the honorable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/5 "2010-02-17T16:32:53Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Does the CEO micromanage to the point where they’re looking at part designs? > > Give them credit for doing a recall for a problem that, so far, had affected an infinitesimally small percentage of their cars. That in itself, I would think, is the honorable thing to do. no, you misunderstand the point of my post: I’m not blaming the CEO for fucking up. I’m just commenting on how Toyota is taking (self-inflicting, according to some here) a beating on their reputation for reliability and noting that in feudal japan, samurai would gut themselves for lesser. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/6 "2010-02-17T17:02:46Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > (No, I can’t back that up. But really, if people don’t know how to shift into neutral, signal, and coast to the side of the road, that’s not completely Toyota’s fault.) > [@](#): > > um, it’s their fault for manufacturing things with blatant defects. I’m just finishing up reading **Unsafe and Any Speed** (a tedious slog!), and find it quite interesting to ponder the extent to which I feel liability for accidents should be attributed to the manufacturer or the user. Yeah, it is fine and dandy to say that a driver involved in an accident was an idiot. But if you willingly sell your product to idiots … ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/7 "2010-02-17T17:05:03Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > How long before the Toyota CEO commits seppuku? Not until he’s done everything he can to fix the mistakes. Then look for him to resign. Hopefully not kill himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/8 "2010-02-17T17:07:51Z")
I highly doubt he will kill himself. If he does, or anyone else in charge of manufacturing, it will be a really sad thing to hear about. I would not be surprised if many people are fired, however. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/9 "2010-02-17T17:19:31Z")
OMG. People. what part of “yes, this is a TIC title” aren’t we getting!☹ now I feel all bad and stuff that people actually think I think the CEO should off himself. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/10 "2010-02-17T17:23:23Z")
I still think that this whole “story” is being blown out of proportion by a media conglomeration that sees this as a chance to knock Toyota off of its rise to prominence in the North American car industry. Have Ford or GM not had any recalls? Does anyone know of any corporate convergence of interests between large media conglomerates and the N. American car companies? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/11 "2010-02-17T17:24:31Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > OMG. People. what part of “yes, this is a TIC title” aren’t we getting!☹ > > now I feel all bad and stuff that people actually think I think the CEO should off himself. This was the first thing I thought of when the CEO was on television. It’s not that I expect it. There are just to many stories of tradition not to think of it. You’re so evil.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/12 "2010-02-17T17:40:16Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > um, it’s their fault for manufacturing things with blatant defects. > > this is like saying it’s your fault for dying from e-coli tainted beef because you didn’t go to a doctor fast enough. Not at all. A vehicle is a _weapon_. It has the capability of converting people into dead. It has sharp edges, it has explosive and poisonous compounds. The problem is failing to properly train for it’s use and operation. You HAVE seen the '[precision machined steel reinforcements](http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/jalopnik/full/~3/xlp2JKj9wwI/), haven’t you? I’m saying (JIMHO) that people are not adequately prepared to handle an unexpected automotive situation. I have a 1962 South Bend Lathe. It has no warning labels. It has no safety interconnects. I still have my fingers and eyesight. I also know when it picks up a sharp spinny mess of aluminum shavings, to NOT reach into the fray when it happens. Is there a defect in these cars? Probably. Is it being blown all out of proportion? Most definately. If your gas pedal sticks and you CANNOT REACH BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND PULL THE FOOT MAT BACK. Well, then perhaps there’s not enough personal responsibility going on between cellphone calls and Latte sipping. Again. IMHO. TIC = Tongue in Cheek, right? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/13 "2010-02-17T17:47:04Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > (No, I can’t back that up. But really, if people don’t know how to shift into neutral, signal, and coast to the side of the road, that’s not completely Toyota’s fault.) I thought the car that crashed with all those people in it (I can’t remember where it happened, even though they keep playing the 911 call on the news) was a Lexus with some kind of ultra-fancy gearshift that didn’t have a logical way to shift into neutral, and that the driver wasn’t familiar with the vehicle. Granted, that doesn’t excuse the driver completely – the last car I rented had a manual in the glove box. I had to read it (after I had parked!) to figure out how to operate the radio. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/14 "2010-02-17T17:49:04Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I have a 1962 South Bend Lathe. It has no warning labels. It has no safety interconnects. I still have my fingers and eyesight. I also know when it picks up a sharp spinny mess of aluminum shavings, to NOT reach into the fray when it happens. I’ll be sure to come and laugh at you in hospital when the lathe malfunctions, throws out a piece of metal in your direction, and embeds itself in your throat. I’ll be sure to mention this conversation and point out that you weren’t fast enough to dodge out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/15 "2010-02-17T18:07:59Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Is there a defect in these cars? Probably. Is it being blown all out of proportion? Most definately. I agree with this. But do you think a manufacturer should have ZERO obligation to engineer or at least warn WRT features they know could lead to injuries with foreseeable use? (Foreseeable _mis_use is another wrinkle.) ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/16 "2010-02-17T18:18:09Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > OMG. People. what part of “yes, this is a TIC title” aren’t we getting!☹ The “TIC” part. I hate when people use non-obvious initializations. I skipped right past that part thinking “I don’t know what ‘TIC’ means, but if it was important he would have spelled it out in full.” Or: The “TIC” part. IHW people use NOI. ISRP that part thinking “IDK what ‘TIC’ means, but IIWI he would have SIOIF.” See what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/17 "2010-02-17T18:18:50Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I’ll be sure to come and laugh at you in hospital when the lathe malfunctions, throws out a piece of metal in your direction, and embeds itself in your throat. I’ll be sure to mention this conversation and point out that you weren’t fast enough to dodge out of the way. I love the fact you’re so dead set on being right you cannot see my statements have _any_ value. I also love that you’d wish harm on an anonymous internet forum member. I have seen pictures of what happens when you don’t respect machine tools. It ain’t pretty. I wouldn’t wish it on, nor laugh at, anyone it happened to. There’s a difference between what I’m saying, and what you’re reading. I’m thinking a little preparedness and personal responsibility is necessary. That’s all. Is Toyota negligent? Possibly. Cars are VERY complex things. There’s a balance between carrying forward the lessons learned in older designs, and the need to build a new shiny every few years that’s hard to reconcile. Read up on Audi’s ‘unintended acceleration’ for a history lesson. I’ll save you the trouble: > [@wikipedia](#): > > Reported sudden unintended acceleration > Audi’s U.S. sales fell after a series of recalls from 1982-1987 of Audi 5000 models[13] associated with reported incidents of sudden unintended acceleration linked to six deaths and 700 accidents.[13] At the time, NHTSA was investigating 50 car models from 20 manufacturers for sudden surges of power.[14] > A 60 Minutes report aired November 23, 1986,[15] featuring interviews with six people who had sued Audi after reporting unintended acceleration, showing an Audi 5000 ostensibly suffering a problem when the brake pedal was pushed.[16][17] Subsequent investigation revealed that 60 Minutes had engineered the failure — fitting a canister of compressed air on the passenger-side floor, linked via a hose to a hole drilled into the transmission.[15] > Audi contended, prior to findings by outside investigators,[14] that the problems were caused by driver error, specifically pedal misapplication.[14] Subsequently, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) concluded that the majority of unintended acceleration cases, including all the ones that prompted the 60 Minutes report, were caused by driver error such as confusion of pedals.[18] CBS did not acknowledge the test results of involved government agencies, but did acknowledge the similar results of another study.[19] ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/18 "2010-02-17T18:21:59Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > I thought the car that crashed with all those people in it (I can’t remember where it happened, even though they keep playing the 911 call on the news) was a Lexus with some kind of ultra-fancy gearshift that didn’t have a logical way to shift into neutral, and that the driver wasn’t familiar with the vehicle. Granted, that doesn’t excuse the driver completely – the last car I rented had a manual in the glove box. I had to read it (after I had parked!) to figure out how to operate the radio. thread [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550813&highlight=vacuum) Fancy radio that requires 8 hours of classroom instruction before use? Fine, whatever. But it shouldn’t take a manual to figure out how to get the car into neutral or kill the engine, or perform any other safety-related task. Items like that should follow established paradigms, e.g. brake pedal on left, accelerator pedal on right, horn button in center of wheel, and standard PRNDL selector on steering column or on center console. Take away those familiar items, and it’s no surprise that someone can’t figure out how to use the new controls in a panic situation. Re: seppuku by an official of a company whose product/service has killed people, this wouldn’t be [the first time.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123#Aftermath) ---
**Author:** ![ItsInTheCards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@ItsInTheCards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ItsInTheCards)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/19 "2010-02-17T18:23:00Z")
Just a little point I’d like to make. Toyota is not the only car manufacturer using these “defective parts”. However, they are the only one correcting the potential problem. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/20 "2010-02-17T18:27:09Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I love the fact you’re so dead set on being right you cannot see my statements have _any_ value. I also love that you’d wish harm on an anonymous internet forum member. There’s a saying… Product liability is strict liability. > [@](#): > > Even if there is no negligence, however, public policy demands that responsibility be fixed wherever it will most effectively reduce the hazards to life and health inherent in defective products that reach the market. It is evident that the manufacturer can anticipate some hazards and guard against the recurrence of others, as the public cannot. Those who suffer injury from defective products are unprepared to meet its consequences. The cost of an injury and the loss of time or health may be an overwhelming misfortune to the person injured, and a needless one, for the risk of injury can be insured by the manufacturer and distributed among the public as a cost of doing business. It is to the public interest to discourage the marketing of products having defects that are a menace to the public. If such products nevertheless find their way into the market it is to the public interest to place the responsibility for whatever injury they may cause upon the manufacturer, who, even if he is not negligent in the manufacture of the product, is responsible for its reaching the market. However intermittently such injuries may occur and however haphazardly they may strike, the risk of their occurrence is a constant risk and a general one. Against such a risk there should be general and constant protection and the manufacturer is best situated to afford such protection. _Escola v. Coca-Cola Bottling Co._, 24 Cal. 2d 453, 462 (1944) Learn it. Love it. It’s a good rule of law. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344.md?page=2)