# How long before the Toyota CEO commits seppuku? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 17, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344 "2010-02-17T16:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/61 "2010-02-18T15:00:37Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > No, when you make up numbers and then claim that you can’t back them up is when it dosen’t stastistically register. It’s also fostering ignorance. But the actual cited numbers back up my initial assertion. This is an overblown media frenzy. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/62 "2010-02-18T16:04:31Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > Modern electronically-controlled transmissions have no direct mechanical connection between the gear selector and the transmission; the selector is nothing more than an electric switch. In these cars, the control computer will not downshift the transmission if doing so will force the engine to exceed redline RPM. So if you’re in overdrive doing 120 MPH, and try to downshift, nothing will happen. If you’re trying to argue that it is now impossible to put an auto trans into a lower gear to save the brakes when going down a grade, then you’re mistaken. You are correct that if you’re above the max downshift speed, it won’t downshift, but the proper strategy is to put it in a lower gear BEFORE you exceed that speed (or brake slightly to get under that speed). On a downslope, without the accelerator applied, most cars will not upshift from the selected gear, and thus you have engine braking. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/63 "2010-02-18T16:08:09Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Ah. > > Did anyone else in the thread actually understand that acronym? Or parse it out based on context? Going back, I can see it - but I sure as hell didn’t the first time through. Rumor - would it really have been that hard to type it out? Understood it easily, and I also correctly surmised the tone of the title before opening the thread (which made TIC easier to understand). Someone was looking at my 2008 Highlander (not on any current list, thankfully) and asking about it and the price. I joked with him that it runs and works beautifully so far, and now is a great time to get a great deal on a Toyota. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/64 "2010-02-18T18:48:57Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > If you’re trying to argue that it is now impossible to put an auto trans into a lower gear to save the brakes when going down a grade, then you’re mistaken. Not what I’m trying to argue. It was suggested that downshifting was a viable option for reducing the speed of a vehicle with a stuck throttle; my point was that if one is already travelling at Ludicrous Speed such that a downshift will result in excessive engine RPM, this will be impossible. > [@Unintentionally Blank](#): > > Please do not make me get into full-on debate mode on this, it’s the kind of shit that’s really making the straight dope an un-fun place to be. If we are talking about the properties of an automatic transmission, then I think we are in agreement; no debate there. If we are talking about how much responsibility to assign to the driver of a car versus the manufacturer, then yes, I think we’ll just end up with a bunch of back-and-forth that doesn’t get us anywhere. I’ve already expressed (upthread) my opinion on car safety design, so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/65 "2010-02-18T19:21:22Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Ah. > > Did anyone else in the thread actually understand that acronym? Or parse it out based on context? Going back, I can see it - but I sure as hell didn’t the first time through. Rumor - would it really have been that hard to type it out? I figured it was a well-known abbreviation, so-ree ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/66 "2010-02-18T19:44:56Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > Not what I’m trying to argue. It was suggested that downshifting was a viable option for reducing the speed of a vehicle with a stuck throttle; my point was that if one is already travelling at Ludicrous Speed such that a downshift will result in excessive engine RPM, this will be impossible. I don’t think anyone actually said that. Another thing to keep in mind is that the brakes on your car are roughly four time stronger than you motor (keeping in mind limiting factors like the regenrative braking in a hybrid car, I honestly don’t know what that brings to the table.) Believe it or not, if you pressed the gas pedal to the floor, and stomped as hard as possible on the brakes, your car would come to a stop. ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/67 "2010-02-19T00:11:44Z")
If he is going to do it I hope he waits until next Wednesday to do it before the House panel. Then it will be televised and Filter can write a song about it. There was an article in the Seattle Times, Weekly, or Stranger about a year ago about Prius owners complaining about a stuck accelerator. One guy ended up in a river. I’ll see if I can find the links. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/68 "2010-02-19T13:53:13Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > But the actual cited numbers back up my initial assertion. This is an overblown media frenzy. You’re entitled to your opinion. According to [this](http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/29/toyota-unintended-acceleration-complaints-update/) have been 2262 unintended acceleraton complaints for Toyota vehicles since 1999. [This report (pdf warning)](http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/ToyotaSUA020510FINAL.pdf) has quite a bit more detail than anything I’ve seen thus far. It also seems to implicate Toyota’s ETCS-i drive-by-wire system. The number of deaths and complaints is in the same ballpark as Ford’s / Firestone tread sepearation issue of the late 90’s. It also has the same accusations of ingored early indications of the issue, delay in informing the NHTSA and coverup. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/69 "2010-02-19T17:58:04Z")
I wonder if it’s going to turn out that part of Toyota’s reputation for quality is simply because they under-report their problems. I remember Mitsubishi got caught hiding defects years ago. It ruined their reputation, and their sales tanked. Today, they barely have a presence in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/70 "2010-02-23T18:11:19Z")
I’m gonna throw out a general **mea culpa**. Stuff from the Toyota hearings is just nuckin futz. It sounds like there’s a systomatic failure in the programming in the car that allows this stuff to happen. You can’t turn the car off as it’s ‘push to start’, you can’t put it in neutral as that’s just a switch the system is also ignoring… one Woman had a car going nuts, had both feet on the brake and it was still doing more than 100 mph… ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/71 "2010-02-23T18:24:52Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I don’t think anyone actually said that. Another thing to keep in mind is that the brakes on your car are roughly four time stronger than you motor (keeping in mind limiting factors like the regenrative braking in a hybrid car, I honestly don’t know what that brings to the table.) Believe it or not, if you pressed the gas pedal to the floor, and stomped as hard as possible on the brakes, your car would come to a stop. You’re assuming availabilty of full vacuum assist. This was discussed in the other thread (see my link upthread): if the throttle is wide-open, there’s very little manifold vacuum available. Once you deplete the reservoir with one or two brake-taps, you have just about zero assist. Good luck overriding a 300-horse V6 with unpowered brakes. Go ahead, try it: deserted street, get up to speed, put the car in neutral, turn the engine off, tap the brakes a couple of times to piss away the vacuum reservoir, and then try locking up the wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/72 "2010-02-23T18:27:39Z")
Add to that regenerative braking…you have a generator that’s supposed to handle X% of your braking to recharge the batteries…only the computer isn’t telling it to do it’s job… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/73 "2010-02-24T01:18:26Z")
I apparently have a different take on this. Compare this to how quickly companies do recalls now if there is even a hint that there products are dangerous. There was evidence of a problem Toyota blames the floorpads Toyota denied that it could possibly be their fault There was evidence of another problem Toyota blames the gas pedal manufacturer Toyota denied that it could possibly be their fault What I don’t understand is how 99% of the population excuses Toyota for not being proactive and blaming everyone but themselves. Just wait until they do find that it was a computer chip error. Oh that’s right, then it’s the chip manufacturer’s fault and not theirs (for the third time) ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344/74 "2010-02-24T16:07:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I apparently have a different take on this. Compare this to how quickly companies do recalls now if there is even a hint that there products are dangerous. > > There was evidence of a problem > Toyota blames the floorpads > Toyota denied that it could possibly be their fault > > There was evidence of another problem > Toyota blames the gas pedal manufacturer > Toyota denied that it could possibly be their fault > > What I don’t understand is how 99% of the population excuses Toyota for not being proactive and blaming everyone but themselves. Just wait until they do find that it was a computer chip error. Oh that’s right, then it’s the chip manufacturer’s fault and not theirs (for the third time) That’s how I’ve seen it, too. Granted, I’m in Detroit so I’m biased ;), but I’ve rolled my eyes at how many people have talked about how it’s blown out of proportion, Toyota is a great company and this is just one thing; but if this had happened to, say, GM or Ford, well good GOD, it’s just _more evidence of how bad they suck_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-before-the-toyota-ceo-commits-seppuku/529344.md?page=3)