# How long do estates operate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422 "2014-08-13T09:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/1 "2014-08-13T09:29:23Z")
In 2013, Rolling Stone magazine ran an article about the estate of Marvin Gaye suing someone for plagiarism. What’s interesting about this is that Marvin Gaye passed away in 1984, more than 30 years ago. My question is: How long can estates “operate”? While it makes perfect sense that there are legal matters which have to resolved after a person has died, shouldn’t there come a time when all the affairs of a deceased person have been settled for good which would, for instance, in the case of Mr. Gaye include transferring copyrights to his heirs or maybe to a company or foundation? (I claim total ignorance in American law, so please bear with me if this is a stupid question :o ) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/2 "2014-08-13T12:28:20Z")
The George Gershwin Estate is still in business; Gershwin died in 1937. The answer is “for as long as there is anything of value that brings in money to the estate.” For long-lived estates, that usually has something to do with intellectual property: Gaye’s songs are still under copyright and still bring in money to his heirs. Once the copyrights expire, his estate will dissolve. His heirs could transfer the copyright to a trust or other entity – indeed, they may actually have done so – but that would be referred to informally as his estate. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/3 "2014-08-13T12:34:38Z")
What about things like his likeness and name? Couldn’t that extend the reason for the estate to exist past the song copyrights? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/4 "2014-08-13T12:55:27Z")
I noticed yesterday that the death of actress Lauren Bacall was first announced by the estate of her deceased husband, Humphrey Bogart - who died in 1957. So apparently his estate is still going strong (I see they even have a Facebook page). ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/5 "2014-08-13T13:21:18Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > So apparently his estate is still going strong (I see they even have a Facebook page). I wonder what it means when your estate has more “friends” than you did. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/6 "2014-08-13T13:24:01Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I wonder what it means when your estate has more “friends” than you did. In some cases, I guess it means someone died 50 years or so before there was a Facebook to join. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/7 "2014-08-13T14:14:57Z")
I suppose an estate could persist for so long that it would eventually be managed by the estate of the executor. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/8 "2014-08-13T14:19:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I suppose an estate could persist for so long that it would eventually be managed by the estate of the executor. :eek: Apparently this is the case with the [Marilyn Monroe estate](http://www.npr.org/2012/08/03/157483945/monroes-legacy-is-making-fortune-but-for-whom). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/9 "2014-08-13T14:34:25Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The George Gershwin Estate is still in business; Gershwin died in 1937. > > The answer is “for as long as there is anything of value that brings in money to the estate.” For long-lived estates, that usually has something to do with intellectual property: Gaye’s songs are still under copyright and still bring in money to his heirs. Once the copyrights expire, his estate will dissolve. > > His heirs could transfer the copyright to a trust or other entity – indeed, they may actually have done so – but that would be referred to informally as his estate. But, wouldn’t copyrights normally just go through probate and be transferred to heirs (or a trust for the heirs) more or less immediately? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/10 "2014-08-13T14:37:56Z")
Who is the person who has been dead the longest but still has an active estate? Are there active estates for people who died in the 1700’s? 1600’s? Can I sue the estate of George Washington? George Washington’s paternal great-grandfather? Oliver Cromwell? William Wallace? Joseph of Aramathea? St. Augustine? ---
**Author:** ![Panzram](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Panzram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panzram)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/11 "2014-08-13T14:57:26Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/12 "2014-08-13T15:13:57Z")
California has an unusual law, the [California Celebrities Rights Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Celebrities_Rights_Act). > [@](#): > > California Civil Code section 3344[3] is for the publicity rights of living persons, while Civil Code section 3344.1,[4] known as the Astaire Celebrity Image Protection Act, grants statutory post mortem rights to the estate of a “deceased personality”, where: > > ``` > that personality had been "any natural person whose name, voice, signature, photograph, or likeness has commercial value at the time of his or her death",[5] > any person using such personality's "name, voice, signature, photograph or likeness on or in products, merchandise or goods" without prior consent was liable to be sued for damages and profits arising from the unauthorized use,[6] and > such prior consent may only be given by persons to whom the personality had transferred such power by contract or trust prior to his death, or by trust or will after his death, or, where no such latter provision was made, his spouse, children, and/or grandchildren,[7] but > "a play, book, magazine, newspaper, musical composition, audiovisual work, radio or television program, single and original work of art, work of political or newsworthy value, or an advertisement or commercial announcement for any of these works, shall not be considered a product, article of merchandise, good, or service if it is fictional or nonfictional entertainment, or a dramatic, literary, or musical work."[8] > > ``` > > In 1999, the period of protection was extended from fifty years after a person’s death to seventy years.[9] Similar laws have been enacted by 12 other states in the United States.[10] You therefore won’t find equivalents going back in history. The law was passed specifically to give protection to the movie industry, which has huge political power in California. It can be applied elsewhere, of course, but the circumstances of its origin were special. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/13 "2014-08-13T18:17:49Z")
Eventually, the rule against perpetuities kicks in: [Rule against perpetuities - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/14 "2014-08-14T01:13:39Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Who is the person who has been dead the longest but still has an active estate? Are there active estates for people who died in the 1700’s? 1600’s? Can I sue the estate of George Washington? George Washington’s paternal great-grandfather? Oliver Cromwell? William Wallace? Joseph of Aramathea? St. Augustine? There is no point in suing an estate unless it has assets in it, and it is not possible to sue an estate unless there is an executor or other personal representative to name in your suit. (And, once the estate has no more assets, there is no reason to appoint an executor to replace the first one who must, eventually, die.) In theory an estate could continue indefinitely. As Bizerta points out, in common law jurisdictions the rule against perpetuities normally prevents an estate from running indefinitely, but there are exceptions to the rule - e.g. trusts for charities. If I provided in my will that my executors were to manage my property to generate income, and to pay the income to one or more charities, but not to transfer capital assets to them, I’d hazard a guess that there would be some jurisdictions in which that would be valid, and the arrangement is at least in theory capable of lasting indefinitely. In practice I would probably set up a distinct structure to manage the funds, and leave my property to them. That’s pretty much what Alfred Nobel did, or Joseph Pulitzer. In substance, the Nobel Foundation is basically the estate of Alfred Nobel, carrying out the instructions in his will. But, as a matter of form, it’s a foundation established by his estate. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-do-estates-operate/695422/15 "2014-08-14T18:22:40Z")
Elvis’ estate is worth many multiples more than when he we as living.