# How Long Has This Particular Vulgarity Been In Use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719 "2015-11-16T18:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/1 "2015-11-16T18:25:49Z")
Namely “stick it up your ass,” or variations thereof, such as “stick it where the sun don’t shine” or “you know where to stick this?” There is an anecdote about my father that takes place in the mid-1950s where the final punchline is that he received this instruction from a rather unexpected source. I have to wonder if that last bit is untrue because it sounds like something people wouldn’t have said back then. Then again, a lot of expressions go back waaaay farther than we might expect, so it’s entirely possible King George told his compadres that those upstart colonies could stick their Declaration of Independence between their merry olde buttockes. Anybody know? Thanks. ETA: I can’t ask him directly because he passed away in '04. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/2 "2015-11-16T18:34:06Z")
A quick search for the phrase on google ngram viewer finds this quote from Court of Appeals, 1894. > [@](#): > > … that the deceased then interposed, " I do not want any drink of you, you can stick it up your ass ; you are no good, you son-of-a- bitch ; you are a cock-sucker " ; that the defendant said he was not a cock-sucker, whereupon the deceased … I’m sure there are far earlier cites that can be found but that one at least places it well before the 1950’s. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/3 "2015-11-16T19:19:55Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > There is an anecdote about my father that takes place in the mid-1950s where the final punchline is that he received this instruction from a rather unexpected source. > > I have to wonder if that last bit is untrue because it sounds like something people wouldn’t have said back then. Ngram viewer also shows that Hemingway used [the phrase](https://books.google.com.pa/books?id=vYPNBLcwhDMC&pg=PA218&dq=%22up+your+ass%22&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22up%20your%20ass%22&f=false) in _Across the River and Into the Trees_ (1950), so it certainly was in contemporary use. ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/4 "2015-11-16T19:27:57Z")
I remember my father saying, in the mid 50’s (he wasn’t given to vulgarity, obscenity or profanity) Colmans Mustard, Colmans Starch If you don’t like it… You can stick it up your arse. Can’t imagine where he heard it, or if he originated it (unlikely). ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/5 "2015-11-16T20:02:26Z")
Fantastic! Thank you. I didn’t know about ngram viewer. Here’s the anecdote (and yes, he regrets doing it) Back when he was in high school, around 1955, he had a pretty young teacher. She had just learned to drive and had purchased her first car: a nifty new Volkswagen Beetle. They weren’t really common in the U.S. yet, and it became a bit of a conversation piece around the school. My father and his friends decided it would be hilarious to play a little joke on her. They found a rusty old pipe, and put it under the car, so when she backed out, she would see it and think that it had fallen off her car. They expected she would be startled for a moment and then realize that the old rusty pipe could not possibly have fallen off her brand-new car. But the ruse worked a little too well. She got terribly upset about it and took it straight to the mechanic. My father felt awful. They hadn’t meant to trick her for real! As it turns out, she knew more about people than she did about cars. The next day, in class, she placed the rusty pipe on his desk, and said “I believe this belongs to you…and I think you know where you can put it.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/6 "2015-11-16T21:09:00Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Namely “stick it up your ass,” or variations thereof, such as “stick it where the sun don’t shine” or “you know where to stick this?” Just wanted to note that when I get sales calls from salesmen for solar panels, I ask them if they could stick them where the sun don’t shine. No one’s caught on. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/7 "2015-11-16T21:15:27Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > A quick search for the phrase on google ngram viewer finds this quote from Court of Appeals, 1894. > > > [@](#): > > > > … that the deceased then interposed, " I do not want any drink of you, you can stick it up your ass ; you are no good, you son-of-a- bitch ; you are a cock-sucker " ; that the defendant said he was not a cock-sucker, whereupon the deceased … Is is wrong that I imagine this person saying, “Well, you have me there – I _am_ no good, and my mother _is_, in fact, a bitch, but I have never even _once_ sucked a cock!”? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/8 "2015-11-16T21:22:37Z")
It’s been used in England since at least WWI. A soldiers’ song to the tune of _What A Friend We Have In Jesus_ When this bloody war is over. Oh, how happy I shall be! When I get my civvy clothes on No more soldiering for me. No more church parades on Sunday No more asking for a pass. You can tell the Sergeant-Major He can stick it up his arse. There are many slightly different versions. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/9 "2015-11-16T21:30:22Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I have to wonder if that last bit is untrue because it sounds like something people wouldn’t have said back then. Well isn’t that the definition of a vulgarity–you can say it in private but not in public? I mean the f-word has been in use for a thousand years (and since the 15th century in print), and until recently you would never use it in a public setting. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/10 "2015-11-16T21:59:57Z")
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Just because it’s a vulgarity doesn’t mean it’s been around forever. The fact that the pretty young teacher actually said such a thing in a “public setting” is what makes the anecdote funny. (and of course she immediately became my father’s favorite teacher.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/11 "2015-11-16T22:20:46Z")
I always thought that’s what Fonzie meant when he said, “sit on it.” ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/12 "2015-11-16T22:56:42Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if some version of that has been around more or less since humans developed language capable of insults. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/13 "2015-11-17T00:43:43Z")
John Stephen Farmer’s slang dictionaries from the 1890s, on Google Books, have a revealing look at Victorian vulgarity. “Slang and its Analogues, Past and Present.” A search for “Arse” (very vulgar for the ‘posterior, breech, or fundament’) reveals some classic tidbits as: “Barge Arse” - A man or woman of rotund development at the back “Heavy Arse” - A hulking lazy fellow, a sluggard “Arse upwards” In good luck I.e. “Arsehole” and “hole” - the rectum “Suck his (arse) hole” - A derisive retort upon an affirmative answer… …and many more If anything, our range of vulgarities has become narrower over the century! ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/14 "2015-11-17T00:45:41Z")
Court testimony is also a great source of uncensored early speech. 1891 transcript of “up his arse” > **[Supreme Court](https://books.google.com/books?id=MUi6QsrrsUUC&pg=RA3-PA43&dq=%22%2Bup%2Bhis%2Barse%2B%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIia-j1p2WyQIVA24mCh0y6Qx6#v=onepage&q=%22%20up%20his%20arse%20%22&f=false)** ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/15 "2015-11-17T02:05:30Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Namely “stick it up your ass,” or variations thereof, such as “stick it where the sun don’t shine” or “you know where to stick this?” > > There is an anecdote about my father that takes place in the mid-1950s where the final punchline is that he received this instruction from a rather unexpected source. > > I have to wonder if that last bit is untrue because it sounds like something people wouldn’t have said back then. Then again, a lot of expressions go back waaaay farther than we might expect, so it’s entirely possible King George told his compadres that those upstart colonies could stick their Declaration of Independence between their merry olde buttockes. > > Anybody know? Thanks. > > ETA: I can’t ask him directly because he passed away in '04. “vaffanculo” is the Italian take on it, so I’d wager it’s been around for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Pismonque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/46a35a/32.png) [@Pismonque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pismonque)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/16 "2015-11-17T08:22:32Z")
This thread has been a nice refresher on the whole “stick it” motif and given me a new second favorite expletive (behind “sumbitch”). It’s a lot of fun to think of that peculiar commonality across time, where everyday people hundreds of years ago could look at some random jackass and say, “Yeah, stick it up your arse.” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/17 "2015-11-17T11:08:48Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if some version of that has been around more or less since humans developed language capable of insults. And before that, elaborate gestures. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/18 "2015-11-17T13:55:27Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “vaffanculo” is the Italian take on it, so I’d wager it’s been around for a while. ‘Vaffanculo’ is ‘go do it in the arse’ (i.e. ‘go get fucked in the arse’) rather than ‘stick it [whatever ‘it’ may be in the specific conversation] up your arse’. It’s ‘Va’ a fare in culo’. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/19 "2015-11-17T14:48:40Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Well isn’t that the definition of a vulgarity–you can say it in private but not in public? I mean the f-word has been in use for a thousand years (and since the 15th century in print), and until recently you would never use it in a public setting. More likely it was rarely used in a polite public setting. As mentioned in the post below the use of such words was commonplace amongst the common people. I wonder if even amongst polite people it was often used, just not often recorded. Elizabethan plays are full of bawdy & scatalogical humour. > [@syncrolecyne](#): > > Court testimony is also a great source of uncensored early speech. > > 1891 transcript of “up his arse” > > [Supreme Court - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=MUi6QsrrsUUC&pg=RA3-PA43&dq=%22+up+his+arse+%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIia-j1p2WyQIVA24mCh0y6Qx6#v=onepage&q=%22%20up%20his%20arse%20%22&f=false) Yes, and some of these court testimonies are wonderfully coarse. Coincidentally I was watching an youtube video today which mention some of these testimonies. For instance an Elizabethan female defendant calling a citation against her a “shite-ation”. It’s not quite saying “up your arse” but it’s headed that way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719/20 "2015-11-17T15:40:26Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if some version of that has been around more or less since humans developed language capable of insults. I would think it has at least been around since the 15th Century, when Vlad the Impaler made it part and parcel of his favorite method of execution… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-has-this-particular-vulgarity-been-in-use/737719.md?page=2)