# How long have people kept knickknacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 20, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418 "2023-03-20T21:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/1 "2023-03-20T21:46:27Z")
This is prompted by the discussion about Roman dodecahedrons. > [@\[Roman\] Dodecahedrons](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459): > > Consider where these things are found. Why are they so frequently found, and always made of bronze? They might be Go/Nogo gauges used for making things like spears, arrows, sling bullets, fasteners used in carpentry or machine parts. (Yes, they had machines with moving parts back then). I speculated they might just be knickknacks. But i wonder how far back in history people had knickknacks. I’m defining “knickknack” to be an object that is movable and primarily decorative. So, a hummel figurine is a knickknack. > **[Hummel figurines](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummel_figurines)** > > Hummel figurines (also known as M.I. Hummel figurines or simply Hummels) are a series of porcelain figurines based on the drawings of Maria Innocentia Hummel. > The sketch art of Maria Innocentia Hummel began to appear in the 1930s in Germany and Switzerland, mostly pastoral drawings of children. The German art publisher Ars Sacra was involved in the early popularization of the art on postcards. Hummel's "art cards" became popular throughout Germany, catching the eye of Franz Goebel, porcelain mak... The small figure of a god that you pray to is not a knickknack, even if it is pretty. Neither is a beautifully painted wine vessel. A wall painting is not a knickknack because its primary function is being a wall. A wall hanging might keep you warm. A map might be educational or help you plan a route. But a framed painting of your father, or of a landscape, is basically a knickknack. So, could the dodecahedrons be knickknacks? Or has knickknacks not really been invented? Or were people not wealthy enough to waste money on them at that point in history? But more generally, when and where have knickknacks existed? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/2 "2023-03-20T22:00:20Z")
This PDF article has a history of [Ornamental Terra Cottas and Knick-knacks](https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/kelsey-assets/kelsey-publications/pdfs/Ancient%20Terracottas.pdf) dating back to at least the 8th century BC. [![](https://i.postimg.cc/HjDShb0h/ancient-knickknacks.jpg) ](https://i.postimg.cc/HjDShb0h/ancient-knickknacks.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/3 "2023-03-20T22:17:08Z")
Egypt had them probably 500 years earlier. > **[3,000-year-old 'Lost Golden City' discovered in Egypt](https://www.livescience.com/lost-golden-city-ancient-egypt.html)** > > The city includes units behind zigzag walls, a bakery and more. > They were taken aback when they began uncovering mud bricks everywhere they dug. The team soon realized that they had unearthed a large city that was in relatively good shape. “The city’s streets are flanked by houses,” some with walls up to 10 feet (3 meters) high, Hawass said. These houses had rooms that were filled with knickknacks and tools that ancient Egyptians used in daily life. The article doesn’t bother to detail what those knickknacks were. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/4 "2023-03-20T22:32:34Z")
Neanderthals apparently liked keeping pretty things. > **[Did Neanderthals Like Pretty Rocks?](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/did-neanderthals-pretty-rocks-180961865/)** > > An unusual rock in a cave inhabited by Neanderthals in Croatia suggests the hominids may have picked up interesting stones And if that evidence seems a bit thin, here’s a story of a collection dating back 105,000 years. > **[Somebody in the Kalahari had a crystal collection 105,000 years ago](https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/2021-03-31/ty-article/somebody-in-the-kalahari-had-a-crystal-collection-105-000-years-ago/0000017f-e4ee-df2c-a1ff-feff53cb0000)** > > \*\*\* Probably ancient spouses hounded them to get rid of all that useless stuff cluttering up the dwelling. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/5 "2023-03-20T22:39:32Z")
Since the question seems to have been largely answered, can we now turn our attention to the history of paddywacks? mmm ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/6 "2023-03-21T12:53:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The small figure of a god that you pray to is not a knickknack, even if it is pretty. The problem is knowing what prehistoric people actually did with their artifacts. We’ll never know if somebody made the lion man to represent a god or if they just had a spare chunk of ivory and thought it would be cool to make a lion man. > **[Lion-man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-man)** > > The Löwenmensch figurine, also called the Lion-man of Hohlenstein-Stadel, is a prehistoric ivory sculpture discovered in Hohlenstein-Stadel, a German cave, in 1939. The German name, Löwenmensch, meaning "lion-person" or "lion-human", is used most frequently because it was discovered and is exhibited in Germany. > Determined by carbon dating of the layer in which it was found to be between 35,000 and 41,000 years old, it is one of the oldest-known examples of an artistic representation and the olde... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/7 "2023-03-21T13:51:48Z")
Or even what Romans did with their dodecahedrons. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/8 "2023-03-21T14:38:53Z")
Paleolithic and Neolithic clay figurines of people and animals date from before the earliest utilitarian pottery such as bowls and pots; people had knickknacks before they had kitchen utensils. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/9 "2023-03-21T15:00:05Z")
@puzzlegal would you class small toys as knickknacks? > **[Why Ancient Toys Are Elusive Artifacts](https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/why-ancient-toys-are-elusive-artifacts)** > > Children have always played. But evidence of their pretend worlds and games is hidden in the archeological record. > **[Neolithic pull toys](https://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2008/09/neolithic-pull-toys.html)** > > "Neolithic" and "pull-toy" are not words you would expect to see used in the same sentence. Scribal Terror tonight featured the above... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/10 "2023-03-21T15:13:23Z")
Probably. I asked a friend who is something of an amateur archeologist a while ago why all those ancient stone figurines of women with big hips are interpreted as fertility goddesses and not as children’s dolls. He replied it was because the effort required to make them was very large, and they would have been too expensive to just be children’s toys, essentially. That’s why I asked about the cost of the Roman dodecahedra. So I was wondering about “evidence of people making stuff just to have stuff”, and not for some religious or practical purpose. The line I drew was fairly arbitrary, mostly because I wanted to draw some line to exclude ancient cave paintings, which I knew about, and focus on portable stuff. I still wonder about those fertility goddesses. Most of the hand-held figures of women we have today are children’s toys, and not religious. But most of the hand-held figures we have today are also very cheap, in terms of the labor a parent would need to do to acquire one for a child. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/11 "2023-03-21T15:24:43Z")
I think a big thing would be the switch from stone to clay. Making human and animal figurines with clay is something lots of rural developing world kids do (and not only rural - my age cohort in suburban Cape Town certainly did this too) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/12 "2023-03-21T15:27:11Z")
My age cohort in suburban Massachusetts did, as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/13 "2023-03-21T15:28:49Z")
I should clarify that I mean while playing outside by the riverside etc, not in kindergarten or a KidsKlay class etc. ---
**Author:** ![TheZenPaperboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@TheZenPaperboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheZenPaperboy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/14 "2023-03-21T15:32:21Z")
Give that man a bone. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/15 "2023-03-21T15:34:43Z")
It’s possible i was introduced to playdough by my mother, first. But i made small figurines out of mud in the sandbox (our sandbox had no bottom, and if you dug far enough and added water, it got very muddy). Mostly we built small toy houses, with mud and some scraps of wood. I also liked to make a model of the inside of my fist. And i played with dough, plasticine, clay, and all sorts of other malleable materials in various settings. Anyway, i agree that shaping clay-like materials is a fairly natural behavior for young children, and doesn’t need a lot of encouragement or purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/16 "2023-03-21T15:36:48Z")
I’m not much clearer on the definition of a knickknack as I am of a paddywhack. It seems like we are defining a knickknack by what it’s _not_; not what it is. If it’s just cheap art, then even a cave drawing qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/17 "2023-03-21T15:38:38Z")
A knickknack doesn’t have to be cheap. But it does have to be an object you can pick up, hold, and move around. And it needs to be primarily decorative, not functional. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/18 "2023-03-21T15:40:00Z")
So, is a piece of jewelry a knickknack? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/19 "2023-03-21T15:44:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Neanderthals apparently liked keeping pretty things. So do some birds. > **[Bowerbird](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowerbird?wprov=sfti1)** > > Ailuroedus > Amblyornis > Archboldia > Chlamydera > Prionodura > Ptilonorhynchus > Scenopoeetes > Sericulus > Bowerbirds (/ˈbaʊ.ərbɜːrd/) make up the bird family Ptilonorhynchidae. They are renowned for their unique courtship behaviour, where males build a structure and decorate it with sticks and brightly coloured objects in an attempt to attract a mate. > The family has 27 species in eight genera. These are medium to large-sized passerines, ranging from the golden bowerbird at 22 cm (8.7 in) and 70 g (2.5 oz... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/20 "2023-03-21T15:45:05Z")
Hmm, Google’s definition a small worthless object, especially a household ornament. “the room was filled with tables, knickknacks, and a large three-piece suite” Dictionary. Com A knickknack is any keepsake, trinket, ornament, figure, or display piece that you own just to display it. Knickknacks can include small statues or figures, … Merriam Webster The meaning of KNICKKNACK is a small trivial article usually intended for ornament. Maybe it does need to be cheap. I think it doesn’t usually include personal ornamentation, like jewelry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418.md?page=2)