# How long have people kept knickknacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 20, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418 "2023-03-20T21:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/41 "2023-03-21T20:21:06Z")
I think of neolithic clay figurines of animals and people as basically portable cave paintings and they are probably the way fired ceramics were discovered. In a hunter-gatherer type of setting, it seems natural that legends of past hunting successes, plans for tomorrow’s hunt, and tales of how prey animals behave and how a brave hunter can prevail, might be discussed - perhaps roleplayed using little models of animals and hunters made from mud - even unfired clay - basically just dry mud - is surprisingly durable for such a purpose when the models being made are small enough to fit in hand. If such discussions took place around a fire, it’s inevitable that eventually, one of those little figures will end up in the embers somehow - and the next day, someone notices that the little mud animals are now as hard as stone… I experimented with this a little bit during a different craft project related to wild clay recently - starting from a rolled ball of clay, the primitive form of an animal can be shaped by just pinching it a dozen times or so to pull out the legs, neck, head, tail, etc. It dries in less than a day, and even in an ordinary wood fire, it fires to earthenware ceramic in about half an hour - this is my experimental animal figure after firing in the embers : [![](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908940739206078545/1038047859318206574/IMG_20221104_094921.jpg) ](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908940739206078545/1038047859318206574/IMG_20221104_094921.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/42 "2023-03-21T20:37:00Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Or…prehistoric counterfeite It was described that way on the show I saw, they may have even called it ‘counterfeit’ or at least a ‘fake’ shell. Could have been, some inlanders might have no idea seashells were not made of stone. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/43 "2023-03-21T21:15:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Someone had a lot of free time if they carved ivory figurines just for fun. They might have had it. > **[Hunter-gatherers have more leisure time.](https://www.rewild.com/in-depth/leisure.html)** > > Some people say that the advent of farming gave people more leisure time to build up civilization, but hunter-gatherers actually have far more leisure time than farmers do, and more still than modern people in the industrialized world. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/44 "2023-03-21T22:21:05Z")
I think that most toys would be made out of materials that would be unlikely to survive over the millennia. Dolls, for instance, would usually be made out of soft things like cloth (if you have it), leather, fur, straw, etc. And if you give a kid a toy weapon or tool, you’re probably going to make sure it’s soft, even if the thing it mimicks isn’t, because you don’t want them hurting themselves or others. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/45 "2023-03-22T00:04:05Z")
Here are a couple of citations based on a very cursory search: On empirical observations of historical hunter-gatherer societies and whether children play with toys. (summary: hunter-gatherer children play with all sorts of miniature objects such as tools, weapons, dolls, etc. And make their own objects for play as well) > **[Hunter-Gatherer Children’s Object Play and Tool Use: An Ethnohistorical Analysis](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.824983/full)** > > Learning to use, make, and modify tools is key to our species’ success. Researchers have hypothesized that play with objects may have a foundational role in the ontogeny of tool use and, over evolutionary timescales, in cumulative technological... On interpretation of archeological evidence for ritual versus children’ toys (summary: it is likely that there has been a bias towards classifying objects as ritual when the evidence shows they could just as well be toys) [Is It Ritual? Or Is It Children?: Distinguishing Consequences of Play from Ritual Actions in the Prehistoric Archaeological Record (anu.edu.au)](https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/161053/2/01_Langley_Is_it_ritual%253F_Or_is_it_2018.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/46 "2023-03-22T04:10:18Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > You have 23 odds and ends on a table. 22 of them fall off. What do you have left, an odd or an end? > > —George Carlin I read this to my daughter. Without missing a beat, she pooted forth the answer: obviously, a cat. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/47 "2023-03-22T12:34:16Z")
I tend to think ritual, play, teaching and storytelling might all have had rather blurred boundaries - I don’t think it necessarily has to be either/or. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/48 "2023-03-22T12:57:17Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > So do some birds. Many corvids do – ravens, crows, magpies. Magpies are so known for it that it’s a synonym for people who collect random shiny junk. I think the answer to the OP is “when we became human”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/49 "2023-03-22T15:00:31Z")
Or perhaps long before that. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/50 "2023-03-22T15:31:11Z")
If a knickknack is something you put on display wouldn’t that first require the invention of the shelf? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/51 "2023-03-22T16:02:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Or perhaps long before that. yeah. Maybe when we became human was the latest possible date. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/52 "2023-03-22T16:59:35Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > If a knickknack is something you put on display wouldn’t that first require the invention of the shelf? You don’t necessarily have to have dedicated physical shelves. For instance, even in a nomadic society you could have people who are required to position themselves on hands and knees so that knickknacks could be displayed on their backs. That doesn’t require woodworking, only hierarchical societies with ruling and servant/slave classes. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/53 "2023-03-22T17:24:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > For instance, even in a nomadic society you could have people who are required to position themselves on hands and knees so that knickknacks could be displayed on their backs. Really? They couldn’t put them on the ground or a flat rock? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/54 "2023-03-22T18:04:34Z")
Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/55 "2023-03-22T18:42:09Z")
One afternoon in a small town bank a frog walks in. There is only one teller on duty, _Patricia Wack_, her nameplate says. The frog comes up to her and says, “Ms. Wack, my name is Kermit Jagger, son of Mick, and I am here to take out a personal loan. I would like to borrow $1,0000.” Eyeing the frog uncertainly she asks, “And, Mr. Jagger–” “–Kermit, please!” “Kermit. For what purpose would this loan be?” “For a vacation. I am in desperate need of one and have been remiss in saving up for it.” “Okay, then, you’re not buying a physical object. Is there any sort of collateral you can offer for this loan?” “I have this,” and the frog places a tiny ceramic elephant on the counter. “I, um, am going to have to ask my manager about this,” and the teller takes the elephant with with her into the manager’s office. “There’s a frog outside, Kermit Jagger, and he wants to borrow a thousand dollars offering _this_,” placing the elephant on the manager’s desk, “What the hell is this?” The manager glances at the elephant and says, > **** > > “It’s a knick knack, Patty Wack, give the frog a loan. His old man’s a Rolling Stone.” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/56 "2023-03-22T20:04:25Z")
Stephen Pastis? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/57 "2023-03-22T20:07:44Z")
I neither confirm nor deny… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/58 "2023-03-22T20:35:58Z")
The inimitable Norm McDonald’s telling of that joke: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MNp4imCLTP4/maxresdefault.jpg "A Frog Goes into a Bank to Get a Loan") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNp4imCLTP4) ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/59 "2023-03-24T17:38:01Z")
I saw that joke acted out on _America’s Funniest Home Videos_, with the loan officer being Patty Black. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418/60 "2023-03-24T18:51:43Z")
I keep them because my kids made them, thereby living up to the premise of the OP. Pointless shit, but my kids made it and valued it, so I value it too. I wonder if Neanderthal parents had the same idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-have-people-kept-knickknacks/981418.md?page=4)