# How long until the new broadband that travels on electric wires comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899 "2004-10-18T20:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/1 "2004-10-18T20:43:22Z")
[http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/10/18/fcc\_ruling\_sets\_stage\_for\_broadband\_surge?pg=2](http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/10/18/fcc_ruling_sets_stage_for_broadband_surge?pg=2) “And because the utility won’t have to string a lot of new cables, Hunt figures it could sell this kind of service for $19 a month and still turn a profit.” Have prices been set for this tech yet? I can’t wait for $20 broadband, I know its only a $25 savings over what I currently pay but still. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/2 "2004-10-18T22:43:51Z")
I remember a friend of mine raving about this more than ten years ago. I have a feeling that it works well until attempts are made to scale it up; the power network doesn’t have the same sort of switching complexity as does the telephone or cable TV networks, so any data you send across it is going to be broadcast to a comparatively wide set of nodes - this is fine when you have a small number of users, but limits the bandwidth/density you can ultimately provide. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/3 "2004-10-18T22:54:31Z")
Yeah, this idea comes up and disappears every couple years. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/4 "2004-10-18T23:28:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I remember a friend of mine raving about this more than ten years ago. I have a feeling that it works well until attempts are made to scale it up; the power network doesn’t have the same sort of switching complexity as does the telephone or cable TV networks, so any data you send across it is going to be broadcast to a comparatively wide set of nodes - this is fine when you have a small number of users, but limits the bandwidth/density you can ultimately provide. Not only that but at the frequencies of broadband the many different line impedances, transformers, etc., etc. might very well cause serious reflection problems in the pulse train not to mention cross-talk from adjacent electrical cables. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/5 "2004-10-18T23:35:23Z")
Networking hasn’t been my specialty for a long time but based on what what I saw building a relatively conventional system I think the idea of just plugging a modem into your wall socket is going to be a pipe dream for most folks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/6 "2004-10-18T23:53:25Z")
Having said all that, you can buy network adapters that plug into your domestic power outlets and enable you to set up a LAN using your house wiring; they are of limited appeal - more expensive than wireless, limited to something like 14mbs and I suspect they simply won’t work properly or at all if different areas of your premises are wired from different phases of a three phase main. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/7 "2004-10-18T23:56:32Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Not only that but at the frequencies of broadband the many different line impedances, transformers, etc., etc. might very well cause serious reflection problems in the pulse train not to mention cross-talk from adjacent electrical cables. I’ve heard that broadband over power lines emits a ton of RF interference. Power lines aren’t shielded like TV and phone lines are. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/8 "2004-10-19T03:04:35Z")
I’m investing in broadband carried through water pipes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/9 "2004-10-19T04:45:56Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’m investing in broadband carried through water pipes. > > 😉 They’re called waveguides. Unfortunately the pipes have to be rectangular in cross section and have no moisture in them. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/10 "2004-10-19T05:09:43Z")
Back to BPL (Broadband over Power Lines), it has been deployed in test markets and apparently works very well. That assumes that there is not a transmitter that operates between 500kHz and 150Mhz within an approximate two-mile radius of your location or any relay point leading to your location. This could be an AM or FM broadcast transmitter, a CB radio operator, an airport, or an amateur radio operator. These signals can disrupt the signal, causing your modem to “lose the carrier.” And the kicker: You or the BPL provider won’t be able to do a thing about it. BPL is an FCC Part 15 service. Part 15 devices, such as BPL, must not , under the FCC rules: > [@](#): > > …cause harmful interference to, and must accept interference from, authorized radio services. So, even though the FCC recently approved the rollout of BPL, I see it as a doomed technology. All you need is some CBer next door to you yakking on his set, or an AM broadcast transmitter a couple of miles away, or a ham operator operating legally, and your BPL could be knocked for a loop, leaving you to wait until it cycles and resynchronizes - until it happens again. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/11 "2004-10-19T05:12:52Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > Unfortunately the pipes have to be rectangular in cross section… No, waveguides can be circular in cross section, as well, but these are apparently more expensive to produce. If you want to seriously abuse your brain, you can read [this _very_ technical PDF article](http://www.jmo.ene.unb.br/volume/vol-2/v2n6a9.pdf) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-the-new-broadband-that-travels-on-electric-wires-comes-out/269899/12 "2004-10-19T09:35:19Z")
Back in 2001, there was a company in Germany which had started testing broadband over electric cables in a few cities. I left Germany soon after that large scale testing began, so I never found out what came out of it… I do remember various testers giving glowing reports though.