# How Long Until We See FF Villains in Marvel Movies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634 "2018-07-10T03:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/21 "2018-07-10T15:07:21Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Just like the Human touch and Captain America were played by the same guy. Double woosh. But they weren’t part of the same movie franchise/continuity, like you’re suggesting for Ultron & Dr. Doom. I think it would be pretty confusing for moviegoers if James Spader showed up again as another robotic enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/22 "2018-07-10T15:11:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I think the next new villain to be introduced was Annhilus in Fantastic Four Annual #6, in the already-introduced Negative Zone. He’d be pretty cool, too, but they’d need to either go a long way to introduce the Negative Zone somehow, or just have Annhilus without it. Annihilus would be a good addition and I think introducing the Negative Zone wouldn’t bee too hard. He’s an alien from an extra dimensional prison. Different realms are already introduced from Thor and the Microverse is coming from Ant-Man so adding the Negative Zone would be cool. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’m pulling for Paste Pot Pete, myself. They should do this, stat. Not all villains should be in the “I want to destroy the whole world/realm/universe” mold. There should be room for a guy who has a glue gun and wants to rob banks. The MCU doesn’t have many of these lower tier villains and they tend to kill them off - Crossbones is a fine example of that. Instead of a nice reoccurring antagonist to Captain America, they have a dude who got launched into the air and exploded. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Of course – Marvel always played mix-and-match with its heroes and villains. He fought Spiderman in issue #5 of Spiderman: > > [The Peerless Power of Comics!: Spider-Man Meets Dr. Doom!](http://peerlesspower.blogspot.com/2014/12/spider-man-meets-dr-doom.html) > > He’s fought most of the Marvel cast at one time or another, but not, AFAIK, as a REGULAR antagonist. My first introduction to Doom was through Spider-Man so I originally associated those two together. Interesting only because Doom and Richards are so tied together – they were college roomies fer cryin’ out loud. Anyway, a couple that would make interesting villains, I think: Molecule Man – this could make an interesting reluctant villain. He’s not really a bad guy, at least he’s come a long way since he was introduced as one. Volcana can be added in as well, though her introduction would need to be changed up a bit, I would think. Kang the Conqueror – this. There is so much potential for this guy. Is he a villain out to subjugate the past? Did he come into the past to save the future? Is it something in between? I thought the Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes cartoon did a pretty good job with him. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/23 "2018-07-10T15:18:49Z")
I do think a proper, faithful Doctor Doom would be cool villain. He’s had a history with almost all these MCU guys so it wouldn’t be out of place even if FF wasn’t around. Be pretty cool to see him go up against Tony, even though I think Tony’s gonna bite it in the next movie. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/24 "2018-07-10T16:30:20Z")
While Ronan first appeared in an issue of FF, I don’t think he fought the FF since that issue. The Skrulls were recurring FF antagonists, so I’d classify them as genuine “FF Villans”, not so much Ronan. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/25 "2018-07-10T17:53:24Z")
When they make these deals with various studios for the rights to “the Fantastic Four and associated characters”, or whatever, is there any clear standard for who counts as an “associated character”? Do they list them all out explicitly at the time of the deal? Is it based on first appearance, or what book the character has appeared in most? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/26 "2018-07-10T18:34:55Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > While Ronan first appeared in an issue of FF, I don’t think he fought the FF since that issue. > > The Skrulls were recurring FF antagonists, so I’d classify them as genuine “FF Villans”, not so much Ronan. Well, the FF pretty much thought he was dead after that first encounter, so they didn’t go looking for him. He apparently showed up again in FF Vol. 3 issues 13 and 14, though, and in Ultimate Fantastic Four #35, if you want to count that. > **[Ronan the Accuser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_the_Accuser)** > > Ronan the Accuser is a character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Created by writer Stan Lee and artist Jack Kirby, he first appeared in Fantastic Four #65 (August 1967). In his comic book appearances, Ronan is depicted as the Supreme Accuser of the Kree Empire, the militaristic government of the alien Kree, and commonly serves as an adversary of superhero teams such as the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, and the Guardians of the Galaxy. Initially portrayed as a supervi... ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/27 "2018-07-10T18:43:08Z")
Bit of a hijack, but when did Doom become a sorcerer? Early on, he was just a really smart, rich guy who was disfigured in an experiment and became angry and evil. Reed’s roommate or something. When did the magic come in? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/28 "2018-07-10T19:05:24Z")
Pretty early on. I think it was first mentioned in his origin story in Fantastic Four Annual # 2 (1964). ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/29 "2018-07-10T19:29:40Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > But they weren’t part of the same movie franchise/continuity, like you’re suggesting for Ultron & Dr. Doom. I think it would be pretty confusing for moviegoers if James Spader showed up again as another robotic enemy. Spader has excellent voice control. Fans want to see the real Doctor Doom and I think Spader is a good choice for the role. As long as Ultron and Doom do not appear in the same screen, things should be fine. A fantasy pick to play Doom would be Daniel Day Lewis. He’s retired, so I heard. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/30 "2018-07-10T19:32:14Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Pretty early on. I think it was first mentioned in his origin story in Fantastic Four Annual # 2 (1964). Thanks. I didn’t remember that. I think I’ve read that origin story (_Bring on the Bad Guys_) – I’ll read it again. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/31 "2018-07-10T20:11:24Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > They should do this, stat. Not all villains should be in the “I want to destroy the whole world/realm/universe” mold. There should be room for a guy who has a glue gun and wants to rob banks. The MCU doesn’t have many of these lower tier villains and they tend to kill them off - Crossbones is a fine example of that. Instead of a nice reoccurring antagonist to Captain America, they have a dude who got launched into the air and exploded. They did pretty well with the Vulture in _Spider-Man: Homecoming_, though I have a feeling he’s going to stay in prison and not show up again. > [@Chronos](#): > > When they make these deals with various studios for the rights to “the Fantastic Four and associated characters”, or whatever, is there any clear standard for who counts as an “associated character”? Do they list them all out explicitly at the time of the deal? Is it based on first appearance, or what book the character has appeared in most? Interesting question. For instance, Black Panther first showed up in _Fantastic Four_ (#52–53, 7-8/1966), but Marvel rather than Fox evidently had the movie rights. I’m guessing that at least the major characters were explicitly listed in the deals. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/32 "2018-07-10T21:00:08Z")
Yet another reason to mourn the death of Alan Rickman. Now, he would have been an awesome Doom. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/33 "2018-07-11T08:19:26Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > The MCU doesn’t have many of these lower tier villains and they tend to kill them off Maybe they learned from the non-MCU Spider-Man franchises… > [@](#): > > Kang the Conqueror – this. There is so much potential for this guy. Is he a villain out to subjugate the past? Did he come into the past to save the future? Is it something in between? I thought the Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes cartoon did a pretty good job with him. I thought so too. But didn’t we just have “ambiguous villain/hero from the future” in _Deadpool 2_? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/34 "2018-07-11T10:09:13Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Bit of a hijack, but when did Doom become a sorcerer? Early on, he was just a really smart, rich guy who was disfigured in an experiment and became angry and evil. Reed’s roommate or something. When did the magic come in? cmkeller is right. I remember reading one comic – I think it may have been that short-lived series where he shared the book with Ka-Zar – and he used magic to battle a pawn of some archdevil like Mephisto for the soul of his mother. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/35 "2018-07-11T11:13:20Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Bit of a hijack, but when did Doom become a sorcerer? Early on, he was just a really smart, rich guy who was disfigured in an experiment and became angry and evil. Reed’s roommate or something. When did the magic come in? Doom always had a sorceric streak to him, along with the super-scientific side. In his very first appearance in FF #5 he used his Time Machine to send three of the FF back in time to steal the pirate Blackbeard’s jewels because of their magical properties (really!). In FF Annual #2, which told of Doom’s origin, he discovers that his mother had been a sorceress, and thus he learns magic alongside his science. It’s implied that the experiment that resulted in an explosion that caused his disfigurement was the result of trying to use his science and occultism to contact his dead mother. So later stories about him using sorcery are just him getting back to his roots. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/36 "2018-07-11T12:50:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Speaking of, how about the Sub-Mariner? Was he tied up in the FF rights? God, I’d love to see the Prince of Abs-Lantis in a movie. No, his rights are held (still, for unknown reasons) by Universal, same as the Hulk. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/37 "2018-07-11T17:31:44Z")
I believe Mark Waid leaned HEAVY into Doom as sorcerer in the “Doomed” storyline which had Doom decide he couldn’t best Richards on science…but he could on magic. Some people hate the storyline but I liked it (but I also wasn’t reading FF at the time so I don’t know if in larger context it was bad). Waid wanted to make Doom a real villain again (wore a magic suit made of the magic infused skin of his first love)and that rubbed people the wrong way. Fanboys like the “noble villain.” ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/38 "2018-07-11T18:26:46Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > It sounds like some took believe that the bad guys obtained in the Fox-Disney deal are a bigger boon than the good guys. How long will we have to wait to find out? I’m waiting to see ads for a movie simply titled “Doom”. Galactus is more powerful, but Doom is cooler and more evil. Maybe he could be shown “reconstituted” during the end credits after Thanos is defeated. There’s a DC cartoon movie named “Doom”. Wonder if they’d sue? Also there was a movie based on the video game, so maybe they couldn’t sue. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/39 "2018-07-11T19:05:43Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > There’s a DC cartoon movie named “Doom”. Wonder if they’d sue? Also there was a movie based on the video game, so maybe they couldn’t sue. Batman had a foe named “Doctor Doom” way back in 1950. He got himself smuggled into the Batcave, something tey referenced for years afterwards (which is how I first learned about it): > **[Doctor Doom (Earth-Two)](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Doom_(Earth-Two))** > > Doctor Doom was an enemy of Batman. Doctor Doom was a jewel smuggler who was captured in Gotham City but managed to escape by hiding inside an ancient Egyptian coffin, which was granted as a souvenir for Batman and Robin for their Batcave. Unaware of... ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634/40 "2018-07-12T23:23:29Z")
Heck, there was a Doctor Doome who squared off against the Seven Soldiers of Victory (published by a company that would eventually be merged into the nascent DC) back in 1942. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-until-we-see-ff-villains-in-marvel-movies/817634.md?page=1)