# How long were Brenda and Eddie married? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717 "2016-03-21T00:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/41 "2016-03-23T11:46:24Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I refuse to believe it wasn’t pills. I already googled it and everyone wants to deny it. But listen to the aching and melodrama in the voice. It was 1978 I think. After all that building up of a straw man to tear him down, How would the song advance without that step up from the wine? Doubtful. _“Reds”_ was popular drug slang for Seconal, but _“White(s)”_ was not a popular term for any illicit drug in pill/capsule form. Amphetamine sulfate would be a real stretch. Other colors besides _“red”_ are rarely used as single names in drug slang, but are often used as adjectives (e.g. \*Black \*Beauties, \*Blue \*Devils). _“Red and Blues”_ was a popular term for Tuinal, but that wouldn’t meter well in Joel’s song. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/42 "2016-03-23T12:56:04Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > It’s because he pronounces her name as “Brender.” (Like the robot!) No, it’s “Brenda Rinetti.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/43 "2016-03-23T14:46:28Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t think so. The whole song is about people who have bigger plans that they’ll never actually get around to, either through procrastination, lack of ability, or simply circumstances. > > Most Americans, actually. You may be right. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/44 "2016-03-23T15:09:36Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > My original plan was to write “mouth full of gum balls,” but I recently saw the episode of ARCHER where everyone gets drunk and Pam decides to see how many billiard balls she can fit in there. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that you couldn’t sing at all with a mouth full of billiard balls (full being one ball, at most). I’m not even sure you could breath. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/45 "2016-03-23T16:21:08Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Doubtful. > > _“Reds”_ was popular drug slang for Seconal, but _“White(s)”_ was not a popular term for any illicit drug in pill/capsule form. Amphetamine sulfate would be a real stretch. Other colors besides _“red”_ are rarely used as single names in drug slang, but are often used as adjectives (e.g. \*Black \*Beauties, \*Blue \*Devils). _“Red and Blues”_ was a popular term for Tuinal, but that wouldn’t meter well in Joel’s song. Well, if you think you know better than Lowell George: “Willin’” I been warped by the rain, driven by the snow I’m drunk and dirty, don’t ya know? And I’m still, willin’ And I was out on the road, late at night I seen my pretty Alice in every headlight Alice, Dallas Alice And I’ve been from Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah Driven every kind of rig that’s ever been made Driven the back roads so I wouldn’t get weighed And if you give me, weed, whites and wine And you show me a sign I’ll be willin’ to be movin’ Read more: Little Feat - Willin’ Lyrics | MetroLyrics ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/46 "2016-03-23T16:30:20Z")
This is from 6 days on the road - Dave Dudley Well I pulled outta Pittsburgh a rollin’ down that Eastern Seaboard I got my diesel wound up and she’s a runnin’ like a never before There’s a speed zone ahead alright I don’t see a cop in sight Six days on the road and I’m a gonna make it home tonight I got my ten forward gears and a Georgia overdrive I’m takin’ little white pills and my eyes are open wide I just passed a Jimmy and a White I been a passin’ everything in sight Read more: Dave Dudley - Six Days On The Road Lyrics | MetroLyrics ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/47 "2016-03-23T16:42:39Z")
Don’t post more than 5-6 lines of a song, please. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/48 "2016-03-23T17:19:01Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Well, if you think you know better than Lowell George: \ Besides being a rather obscure slang reference to amphetamines, _a bottle of reds, a bottle of whites_ simply doesn’t make any sense in the context of the song. First of all, the lyrics are: _a bottle of red, a bottle of white_, not: \*a bottle of red **s** , a bottle of white **s**. \* Secondly, the line that follows is: perhaps a bottle of rose instead. Since when is rose a viable alternative to uppers or downers? It is, however, a good alternative (well, not really) to red or white wine. And, Italian restaurants are typically associated with wine drinking. Popping pills…not so much. Thirdly, if you want to numb yourself to the harsh realities of life, you do so with alcohol, or narcotic analgesics…possibly with barbiturates (e.g. _“reds”_/Seconal), but certainly not with speed (_“whites”_/amphetamine sulfate). Lastly, popping pills just doesn’t fit the bittersweet romantic motif of the song. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/49 "2016-03-23T17:31:41Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > \ > > Besides being a rather obscure slang reference to amphetamines, _a bottle of reds, a bottle of whites_ simply doesn’t make any sense in the context of the song. > > First of all, the lyrics are: _a bottle of red, a bottle of white_, not: \*a bottle of red **s** , a bottle of white **s**. \* > > Secondly, the line that follows is: perhaps a bottle of rose instead. Since when is rose a viable alternative to uppers or downers? It is, however, a good alternative (well, not really) to red or white wine. And, Italian restaurants are typically associated with wine drinking. Popping pills…not so much. > > Thirdly, if you want to numb yourself to the harsh realities of life, you do so with alcohol, or narcotic analgesics…possibly with barbiturates (e.g. _“reds”_/Seconal), but certainly not with speed (_“whites”_/amphetamine sulfate). > > Lastly, popping pills just doesn’t fit the bittersweet romantic motif of the song. Well the discussion is about it sounding like he is pluralizing with an S at the end of the words, at the end of the song, not at the beginning, to make a change in the arc. This is the line in question as published on line: A bottle of red, a bottle of white Whatever kind of mood you’re in tonight I’ll meet you anytime you want In our Italian Restaurant Notice the second line which is suggestive of the drugs polarities. Notice it doesn’t say “Bottle of rose instead” or repeat the motif reversed. Most of all notice that it comes at the end, after a whole lot of drama and changes, 1970s style. I could be wrong but I heard it that way for years, and it makes me think less of the song if it’s not there. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/50 "2016-03-23T17:40:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Well the discussion is about it sounding like he is pluralizing with an S at the end of the words, at the end of the song, not at the beginning, to make a change in the arc. > This is the line in question as published on line: > > A bottle of red, a bottle of white > Whatever kind of mood you’re in tonight > I’ll meet you anytime you want > In our Italian Restaurant > > Notice the second line which is suggestive of the drugs polarities. Notice it doesn’t say “Bottle of rose instead” or repeat the motif reversed. Most of all notice that it comes at the end, after a whole lot of drama and changes, 1970s style. > > I could be wrong but I heard it that way for years, and it makes me think less of the song if it’s not there. Exactly- I’ve listened closely and I never hear the first verse as whites/reds but always hear the second that way. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/51 "2016-03-23T17:46:47Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JUz48xw_OiM/hqdefault.jpg "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant-Billy Joel (lyrics)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUz48xw_OiM) I listened to it at the end, and the sybillance (S) is unmistakeable at the end of the words, on white and red. At the beginning there is no sybillance on red, but it seems to be there on white. So there is some ambiguity, probably intentional. They knew it was there even if it came from the recording technique. It was mixed that way. It was a lot cooler to reference drugs back then. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/52 "2016-03-23T21:56:57Z")
Ok, I listened to your link and I believe I understand the confusion. This is what I heard: The first verse: _A bottle of white **s** , a bottle of red._ The last verse: A bottle of white **s** , a bottle of red **s** So, what does this mean? It could mean: 1. 2 bottles of wine in the first verse (one white, one red) and the same 2 types of wine in the last verse (as I believe it does mean). Or, it could mean: 1. A bottle of red wine and a bottle of amphetamine sulfate tablets in the first verse, then a bottle of secobarbital sodium and a bottle of amphetamine sulfate tablets in the last verse. Personally, I think # 1) has more artistic integrity. Plus, I don’t think Joel is clever enough to construct the wine/pill juxtaposition of # 2). However, you should interpret art as it strikes you, not as others interpret it for you (not even the artist: he’s/she’s just a vessel through which the art flows). If Billy Joel’s song works with you with red and white pills, then that’s what it should be for you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/53 "2016-03-23T22:27:51Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I heard he’s doing a stand-up routine in LA. And Davy was trying to decide if he should buy some speakers. He got some kicks instead, they weren’t cheap either. Well, if you’re not prepared to blow up the budget, any pair of sneaks you can get is just gonna have a fight to the DEATH with a bright orange pair of pants. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/54 "2016-03-23T22:34:26Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Ok, I listened to your link and I believe I understand the confusion. This is what I heard: > > The first verse: > _A bottle of white **s** , a bottle of red._ > > The last verse: > A bottle of white **s** , a bottle of red **s** > > So, what does this mean? > > It could mean: > > 1. 2 bottles of wine in the first verse (one white, one red) and the same 2 types of wine in the last verse (as I believe it does mean). > > Or, it could mean: > > 1. A bottle of red wine and a bottle of amphetamine sulfate tablets in the first verse, then a bottle of secobarbital sodium and a bottle of amphetamine sulfate tablets in the last verse. > > Personally, I think # 1) has more artistic integrity. Plus, I don’t think Joel is clever enough to construct the wine/pill juxtaposition of # 2). > > However, you should interpret art as it strikes you, not as others interpret it for you (not even the artist: he’s/she’s just a vessel through which the art flows). If Billy Joel’s song works with you with red and white pills, then that’s what it should be for you. Every time I demonstrate some point you just say “See I told ya I was right” You’re explanation makes absolutely no sense, grammatically, that is if you’re even trying to explain the "S’s. If not why mention them? He could have been talking about wine in the first verse and punning the wine with pills in the last. I’m no fan of his but you just said he’s not clever enough to do that. I think that this kind of bathetic switch was a specialty of his, actually. See this: > **[Billy Joel - The Ballad Of Billy The Kid Lyrics | AZLyrics.com](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/billyjoel/theballadofbillythekid.html)** > > Billy Joel "The Ballad Of Billy The Kid": From a town known As Wheeling, West Virginia Rode a boy with a six-gun in his hand And his daring li... When I hear him singing at the end it’s not the same thing as at the beginning. One thing we know about Billy Joel is that he was always very defensive about his hipness, and would do anything to appear cooler than he is. Like make a drug reference in 1978. It’s not like it wasn’t common enough. Also he couldn’t turn down a good phrase or moderately clever twist any more than a dog could refuse bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/55 "2016-03-23T22:49:58Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > \*\*Eleanor was first introduced in _She’s Leaving Home_, but not by name, then she turns up again in _Another Day_, then we learn of her sad fate in her eponymous song. \*\*Take the three songs together and it’s a sad tale of a life of quiet desperation. Eleanor thought running away with the man from the motor trade would make her life better, but he dumped her shortly after, and she thought she couldn’t go back home and admit she was wrong, so she spent the rest of her life trying to find happiness, and it never came. > > And I always pronounce the Billy Joel character as Brender. [Bolding mine] Please tell me I’m being whooshed here - Eleanor Rigby came out in 1966, She’s Leaving Home in 1968, and Another Day wasn’t even a Beatles song, it was a McCartney solo in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/56 "2016-03-23T22:55:35Z")
> [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](#): > > [Bolding mine] > > Please tell me I’m being whooshed here - Eleanor Rigby came out in 1966, She’s Leaving Home in 1968, and Another Day wasn’t even a Beatles song, it was a McCartney solo in 1970. Not really whooshed. More like creative interpretation. I just figured Paul had more to say about the character, but by them the Beatles had broken up, so he had to record the third installment (the middle section) as a solo piece. I truly believe that the three songs are about the same person. Whether Paul feels the same, I cannot say… ---
**Author:** ![DonnaReMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@DonnaReMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonnaReMe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/57 "2016-11-18T03:15:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Does anyone think Eddie is the one who’s got a new wife, life, and fine family; and who can’t believe Brenda is looking so good after all those years? > > Or was that entire graduating class filled with couples who just couldn’t wait to get that first marriage under their belts and over with? > > And am I the only one who thinks that at the closing movement of the suite Billy is singing _“A bottle of **reds** ; a bottle of whites”_? I’ve always thought the same thing. In my mind, in the opening verse, Brenda and Eddie are meeting surreptitiously at the Italian Restaurant after “all these years.” Eddie now has a “new wife and a new life” and can’t believe Brenda looks so good after all these years. Then the Ballad of Brenda and Eddie tells the back story of how they married young and divorced. Then the song winds up with them back at the Italian restaurant - and yes, it is “reds” and “whites” which almost sounds like bottles of pills rather than wine! ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/58 "2016-11-18T03:31:19Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I’ve always wondered just what the hell a “real estate novelist” is, anyway. And I always thought it was “real estate novice”. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/59 "2016-11-18T12:55:55Z")
I’ve always assumed that he was using wordplay and referring to wine at the beginning and pills at the end. It would make no sense to pluralise wine that way. You would say “bottles of red”, not "bottle of reds’. Listening to **drad dog** ’s link, the “s” sounds are obvious and unambiguous at the end. At the beginning, “red” is obviously not pluralised. Admittedly, “white” is ambiguous. It may or may not end with an “s”, but if it does have an “s” sound that would kill the wordplay or at least make it less sensible, so I’ve always assumed that it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717/60 "2016-11-18T17:56:32Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > And I always thought it was “real estate novice”. It is definitely “real estate novelist” according to the lyrics. [https://play.google.com/music/preview/Twx7kpapwmir7z7llm6sqqy25pq?lyrics=1&utm\_source=google&utm\_medium=search&utm\_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics](https://play.google.com/music/preview/Twx7kpapwmir7z7llm6sqqy25pq?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-were-brenda-and-eddie-married/749717.md?page=4)