# How long will politicians be able to milk 9/11 for political capital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309 "2006-02-06T22:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/41 "2006-02-09T00:22:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Call what (little) we’ve seen out of Abu Ghraib “torture,” call it something else – no good person would tolerate it, and certainly not for the reasons you’ve given. Abu Graib is about some assholes getting their jollys. I did not intend to defend it and you have no reason to assume I did. Is that your best shot or do you have problems with other examples of “torture”? BTW I’m signing off so you will be hearing some crickets, unlike the earlier 12 minute pause. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/42 "2006-02-09T00:24:10Z")
Let’s continue: > [@SteveG1](#): > > If there is illegal wiretapping, the Dems and Repubs who are against it are right to demand investigations. > If Libby or Rove or Rice did out a covert agent, then others are right to call them on it. Care to argue against either of those? (Miers, I think, has already been covered, and not to your credit.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/43 "2006-02-09T01:26:50Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > And your point is…? > > Incidently that was the highlight of 2005 !! Definitely a high point. It was fun to watch, but I’m a meany anyway 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/44 "2006-02-09T01:32:13Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > I don’t hear any crickets … > > My point was his “Ifs” turned into “facts”. > > My point is that many good people look at your so-called “torture” and compare it to completely innocent people getting their heads cut off and are happy to have the “torture” continue if the people fighting this war deem it neccesary. > > We get a kick out of blow hards like Teddy Kennedy standing up for the poor terrorists! Keep pushing !!! Shrug, I never much liked Ted anyway. “We” suspected liberals (I still consider myself moderate) aren’t as monolithic or unifed as might seem. But, even if someone isn’t a drunken blowhard, and isn’t “standing up for the poor terrorists” (Murtha for example), they get accused of dastardly treachery and Americahating and Notsupportingthemumblemumblemumble. Sorry about the disjointed multiposts, it’s been a long and busy day. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/45 "2006-02-09T03:55:56Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > Abu Graib is about some assholes getting their jollys. :dubious: I’m glad I didn’t pledge **your** fraternity! Abu Ghraib is about millions of Arabs and other Muslims who are going to bitterly hate America for at least the next two generations, and not without some justice. That wasn’t the intention, I hope, but that’s very definitely how it worked out. > [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > I did not intend to defend it and you have no reason to assume I did. :rolleyes: Tell us what exactly you **are** defending (vis-a-vis **SteveG1’s** list of “Ifs”) and we’ll go from there. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/46 "2006-02-09T10:13:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: I’m glad I didn’t pledge **your** fraternity! > > Abu Ghraib is about millions of Arabs and other Muslims who are going to bitterly hate America for at least the next two generations, and not without some justice. That wasn’t the intention, I hope, but that’s very definitely how it worked out. > > :rolleyes: Tell us what exactly you **are** defending (vis-a-vis **SteveG1’s** list of “Ifs”) and we’ll go from there. And ABCBSNBCNN were just reporting and speaking truth to power, right? Go ahead and declare victory (I know you will). I’m not at all interested in “debating” those issues with you … especially since you’ve made my point so nicely. Here it is: When the issue of what constitutes “torture” or when nasty interrogation techniques might be warranted, people like you bring up Abu Graib. And to top it off, the media haven’t shown you enough pictures of it!! That’s when people like me get to ask you if you’ve seen enough pictures of the towers burning, or people jumping to their deaths? Did the NYT and CBS show you or let you listen to that poor guy get his head carved off?? Which among all of those images have you seen more often? So keep pushing! Make Cindy Sheehan the voice of military mothers, let Howard Dean be the voice of the Dem party, give Teddy Kennedy as much floor time as he wants. Whens Michael Moore going to have a new movie out? Can’t wait for those Move-On commercials! Encourage the ACLU to file wire-tapping lawsuits if they have time in between defending NAMBLA perverts. (Sorry but I could really do without NARAL whining whenever their cherished right to abort is threatened even in the slightest). Are you enjoying the “mainstream media” (who love anti-christian art) tap dance around Moslem cartoons? Speak truth to power my ass! When will we see Kanye with a bomb in a turban on the cover of Rolling Stone? The point I’m making, which ansers the OP and which you aren’t apparently interested in, is that we’ll be able to push right for as long and as far as you folks push left. Keep pushing! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/47 "2006-02-09T14:10:24Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Can you re-word that? Because I can’t decipher what you’re trying to say. Short version: Libruls are evil. Long version: Sean Hannity tells me that Libruls are evil. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/48 "2006-02-09T14:53:53Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > The point I’m making, which ansers the OP and which you aren’t apparently interested in, is that we’ll be able to push right for as long and as far as you folks push left. Keep pushing! When exactly did the souls of the right become so septic that they were willing to give up freedom, national security, financial solvency, and moral credibility just so long as liberals feel bad? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/49 "2006-02-09T16:25:30Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > When exactly did the souls of the right become so septic that they were willing to give up freedom, national security, financial solvency, and moral credibility just so long as liberals feel bad? 1. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/50 "2006-02-09T18:48:16Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > And ABCBSNBCNN were just reporting and speaking truth to power, right? As opposed to what? > [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > Here it is: When the issue of what constitutes “torture” or when nasty interrogation techniques might be warranted, people like you bring up Abu Graib. And to top it off, the media haven’t shown you enough pictures of it!! > > That’s when people like me get to ask you if you’ve seen enough pictures of the towers burning, or people jumping to their deaths? Did the NYT and CBS show you or let you listen to that poor guy get his head carved off?? Which among all of those images have you seen more often? When come back, bring relevance. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/51 "2006-02-10T00:14:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > When come back, bring relevance. Go read post #21 and see if you can figure it out for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/52 "2006-02-10T00:19:19Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > Go read post #21 and see if you can figure it out for yourself. What, **chappachula’s** post? Nope, still no relevance. Not to any of the “arguments” made in your posts, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/53 "2006-02-10T01:00:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What, **chappachula’s** post? Nope, still no relevance. Not to any of the “arguments” made in your posts, anyway. You win; I’m wrong. Keep pushing!! Did you hear that Cindy Sheehan isn’t going to run for Senate? Damn! ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/54 "2006-02-10T01:22:38Z")
Howard Dean keeps pushing … > **[Reporters Blame Global Warming for Katrina, Not Even NYT Buys It](https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/brent-baker/2005/08/31/reporters-blame-global-warming-katrina-not-even-nyt-buys-it)** > > Some in the media have blamed the ferocity of Hurricane Katrina on global warming. NBC's Robert Bazell warned on Monday's NBC Nightly News, in a story carried repeatedly on MSNBC, that "many scientists say we can expect such storms more often as... Move-On !!! ---
**Author:** ![buns3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c89c15/32.png) [@buns3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buns3000)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/55 "2006-02-10T03:07:25Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > And ABCBSNBCNN were just reporting and speaking truth to power, right? > Go ahead and declare victory (I know you will). I’m not at all interested in “debating” those issues with you … especially since you’ve made my point so nicely. > > Here it is: When the issue of what constitutes “torture” or when nasty interrogation techniques might be warranted, people like you bring up Abu Graib. And to top it off, the media haven’t shown you enough pictures of it!! > > That’s when people like me get to ask you if you’ve seen enough pictures of the towers burning, or people jumping to their deaths? Did the NYT and CBS show you or let you listen to that poor guy get his head carved off?? Which among all of those images have you seen more often? > > So keep pushing! Make Cindy Sheehan the voice of military mothers, let Howard Dean be the voice of the Dem party, give Teddy Kennedy as much floor time as he wants. Whens Michael Moore going to have a new movie out? Can’t wait for those Move-On commercials! Encourage the ACLU to file wire-tapping lawsuits if they have time in between defending NAMBLA perverts. (Sorry but I could really do without NARAL whining whenever their cherished right to abort is threatened even in the slightest). Are you enjoying the “mainstream media” (who love anti-christian art) tap dance around Moslem cartoons? Speak truth to power my ass! When will we see Kanye with a bomb in a turban on the cover of Rolling Stone? > > The point I’m making, which ansers the OP and which you aren’t apparently interested in, is that we’ll be able to push right for as long and as far as you folks push left. Keep pushing! It seems from this post that you are implying that: 1. the violent nature of the 9/11 attacks justifies the use of torture at Abu Ghraib; and 2. the more people voice their objection to torture (“push left”), the more it is justified. Can you please confirm whether I’m reading you correctly? Thanks. Do you think that if one is opposed to torture, they must as a matter of course be politically left-leaning/“pushing left”? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/56 "2006-02-10T11:35:16Z")
> [@buns3000](#): > > It seems from this post that you are implying that: > > 1. the violent nature of the 9/11 attacks justifies the use of torture at Abu Ghraib; and > > 2. the more people voice their objection to torture (“push left”), the more it is justified. > > Can you please confirm whether I’m reading you correctly? Thanks. Do you think that if one is opposed to torture, they must as a matter of course be politically left-leaning/“pushing left”? Not at all… I’d be real interested if you re-read my posts to this thread and see if you still think so after I try to explain: My point was that when the left pushes to the left they make it easy for the right to push right farther and longer. The example made in this thread was that when “torture” came up very generally… instead of focusing on what constitutes torture as an official policy and when it might be justified, **Brainglutton** brought up Abu Graib. As I stated AG was about perverts getting their jollies not about official US policy. Pushing left doestn’t justify anything at all on the right … it just gives us an opportunity to bring up images of 9/11 and other attrocities more often and longer, which was the very question posed in the OP I think. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/57 "2006-02-10T19:50:52Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > You win; I’m wrong. Keep pushing!! Did you hear that Cindy Sheehan isn’t going to run for Senate? Damn! IOW, you got nuttin’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/58 "2006-02-10T19:59:02Z")
> [@What the .... ?!?!](#): > > My point was that when the left pushes to the left they make it easy for the right to push right farther and longer. Push all you like. We **will** outlast you. We have time on our side. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/59 "2006-02-11T11:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Abu Ghraib is about millions of Arabs and other Muslims who are going to bitterly hate America for at least the next two generations, and not without some justice. Well boo hoo. Abu Ghraib came down to some bored, unsupervised lowlifes who’s acts were universally condemned by America & the West. And all but the most ignorant Arabs know this. 9/11 is about millions of Americans who are going to (and do) bitterly hate muslims for at least the next few generations, and with more than a little justification as 9/11 was a concerted effort by those of the muslim faith to demonstrate their utter hatred for non-muslims. And though it was condemned by some it was and is, even to this very day, still roundly supported and praised by much much more than a tiny majority of the muslim world. And now they continue to riot and murder over, um, a cartoon. Great plan guys. Keep it up. Keep showing the world what a tolerant, enlightened, civilized, peaceful people you are and how America & the West is still ‘the great Satan’. You’ve almost got the world convinced… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309/60 "2006-02-11T11:49:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Abu Ghraib came down to some bored, unsupervised lowlifes who’s acts were universally condemned by America & the West. Bullfeathers. These were people acting with the knowledge and approval of their superior officers, if not all the way up to the White House. These were not isolated incidents, particularly when viewed in the context of the torture that the US is conducting in Cuba. > [@](#): > > 9/11 is about millions of Americans who are going to (and do) bitterly hate muslims for at least the next few generations, and with more than a little justification as 9/11 was a concerted effort by those of the muslim faith to demonstrate their utter hatred for non-muslims. And are Americans to hate Christians for the Oklahoma City bombing or the crimes of Nazi Germany? The only Americans that are going to hate Muslims because of the criminal acts of a few are those without a lot of common sense. For every violent Muslim there are probably hundreds of peaceful ones that are as outraged by the violence as the rest of us. > [@](#): > > And though it was condemned by some it was and is, even to this very day, still roundly supported and praised by much much more than a tiny majority of the muslim world. Do you have any polling data to support this? > [@](#): > > And now they continue to riot and murder over, um, a cartoon. I won’t defend the violence but I do understand the outrage. You have over a billion people that believe that depicting their prophet is blasphemous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-politicians-be-able-to-milk-9-11-for-political-capital/343309.md?page=4)