# How long will republicans play chicken with the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873 "2011-06-26T01:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/101 "2011-07-12T01:29:33Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > I think there is not a single federal bureaucracy that couldn’t function just as well with 20% fewer employees. Let attrition bring the number of government employees down to that level. It wouldn’t take long. Baby Boomer federal employees should be retiring en mass now as they reach retirement. It’s not happening. With a crappy economy, and threats to retirement benefits, Boomers are staying put. But reducing the federal workforce is eye candy, without anything useful. You have to cut the programs they are required by Congress to manage. My staff have been reduced by more than 57 percent during the past year. Yet my obligated workload remains the same, with requests for more. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/102 "2011-07-12T01:30:42Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Wait and see. If your opinion is that the PPACA will have unintended and unpredictable consequences, that’s a fine and reasonable position to have. It’s a massive reform, and Congress is only human (on its best days). But don’t dress up your opinion in made-up statistics and false information. Not only do you mislead people, you make yourself far less credible. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/103 "2011-07-12T01:32:56Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Democrat trick. > [@galveston](#): > > Democrat Woodrow Wilson > [@galveston](#): > > Hey Gonzo! I thought this was supposed to be a civil discussion! Hey Galveston! I thought this was supposed to be a [civil discussion!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(phrase)). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/104 "2011-07-12T01:39:23Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > You can’t balance this on the backs of the rich. There are not enough of them even if you took 100%. We can make a big dent in the debt with a balance of spending cuts and revenue increases. I am willing to make spending cuts, if Republicans will agree to revenue increases. But, no revenue increases, no spending cuts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/105 "2011-07-12T02:03:52Z")
You’re not actually taxing people; you’re taxing _money_. The super-rich may not be numerous, but the money is there. [US income distribution:](http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html)Only 1% of the population has 34.6% of the net worth, and 42.6% of the financial wealth. The bottom 80% has only 15% and 7% respectively. And that was as of 2007 - which direction do you think it’s gone since? So why do you want to tax mostly the bottom 80%? :dubious: Because that 1% are funding your campaign and your “news” networks, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/106 "2011-07-12T02:06:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > If your opinion is that the PPACA will have unintended and unpredictable consequences, that’s a fine and reasonable position to have. It’s a massive reform, and Congress is only human (on its best days). What that argument usually fails to acknowledge is that NOT acting ALSO has unintended and unpredictable consequences. It therefore cannot be honestly used as an argument either way - it’s merely an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/107 "2011-07-12T03:00:36Z")
Maybe ifthe democrats had bothered with passing any simblance of a budget while ruling the checkbook we wouldn’t be in this mess. If anyone needs to be accused of playing chicken… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/108 "2011-07-12T03:10:05Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Maybe ifthe democrats had bothered with passing any simblance of a budget while ruling the checkbook we wouldn’t be in this mess. If anyone needs to be accused of playing chicken… You know why we’re in this mess? [(1) Bush tax cuts + (2) two unfunded wars + (3) a recession](http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-bush-policies-deficits-2010-6). Future increases in the deficit are largely because of the tax cuts and increasing medical costs from Medicaid/Medicare, the latter of which are projected to be smaller because of the Democrats reforms in 2010. Unlike the GOP, the Democrats actually pay for the programs they want, at least when the GOP isn’t filibustering to prevent this. What has the GOP ever done for the deficit, other than massively increasing it? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/109 "2011-07-12T03:42:01Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > You don’t mention that the cuts are in the future, but **the tax increases are now**. It is a tired Democrat trick. When the time comes for the cuts to kick in, you will see smoke and mirrors, accounting tricks to claim the 4 trillion cuts, but you won’t notice any real reduction in government spending. [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812104576439793321939806.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812104576439793321939806.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Obama said any tax increases that have been discussed as part of a deficit-reduction deal wouldn’t take effect until 2013. He said he has told Republicans he would work with them on a tax-reform plan that lowers all taxpayers’ rates and broadens the tax base Any other facts you’d like to get wrong while you have our attention, **galveston**? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/110 "2011-07-12T03:55:33Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > You don’t mention that the cuts are in the future, but the tax increases are now. Wrong! The tax increases do not happen until 2013! The tax increases are in the future … like the tax cuts. On edit, I see Robot Arm has already gotcha. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/111 "2011-07-12T03:58:24Z")
A tax increase is not a one time thing. You do not balance the books in one day. But more revenue, year after year will eventually retire the debt. When Bush came into power, the Dems left him a surplus. Within 8 years he totally trashed the economy. He started 2 unnecessary wars without paying for them. Then he started cranking back revenue with a string of tax cuts. You do not have to be a financial expert to figure out where that would end. It ended with a crashed economy and an enormous debt. Obama is not responsible for this mess. TARP had to include even more tax cuts before the Repubs ,who were responsible for crashing the world economy, would vote for it. Now they insist that we should not increase the tax load of those who have been making out like thieves (or bankers). They are being totally irresponsible. I wish the voters were smart enough to turn on them. But they are not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/112 "2011-07-12T04:03:06Z")
If the Republicans succeed in trashing the economy by not raising the debt ceiling, we will indeed have moved from democracy to idiocracy. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/113 "2011-07-12T04:05:27Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You know why we’re in this mess? [(1) Bush tax cuts + (2) two unfunded wars + (3) a recession](http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-bush-policies-deficits-2010-6). Future increases in the deficit are largely because of the tax cuts and increasing medical costs from Medicaid/Medicare, the latter of which are projected to be smaller because of the Democrats reforms in 2010. > > Unlike the GOP, the Democrats actually pay for the programs they want, at least when the GOP isn’t filibustering to prevent this. What has the GOP ever done for the deficit, other than massively increasing it? Life must be good in Fantasy Land… Let’s just look back at a little timeline… Democrats controlled congress and the checkbook from 2007 to Jan 2011. Obama take office in 2008 and you not only have complete control of Congress, but the Senate & the White House as well. Pray tell, what happened to the deficit during this period? [According to the GAO](http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/deficit/) According to their simple chart 2007: -$275.5 B 2008: -$1,009.1 TRILLION 2009: -$1,253.7 TRILLION Probably a good thing 2010 wasn’t included Instead of paying for those programs, looks to me like the controlling Democrats walked the check and left the US taxpayers holding the tab. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/114 "2011-07-12T11:33:10Z")
It’s just not as simple as pointing to a timeline and asking who controlled Congress, unless you blame the Democrats for the Bush tax cuts, the recession, and failing to budget for a war built in lies. You might in fact blame the Democrats for those things, but if so that belief has no connection to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/115 "2011-07-12T12:29:28Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > According to their simple chart > > 2007: -$275.5 B > 2008: -$1,009.1 TRILLION > 2009: -$1,253.7 TRILLION > Probably a good thing 2010 wasn’t included > > Instead of paying for those programs, looks to me like the controlling Democrats walked the check and left the US taxpayers holding the tab. Humour this foreigner but didn’t Bush run the country and present the budgets in 2008? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/116 "2011-07-12T12:43:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Humour this foreigner but didn’t Bush run the country and present the budgets in 2008? Yes. We are actually still running on the Bush budgets. They’ve been extended multiple times. Any attempt to pass an Obama budget will be blocked in the senate the Democrats haven’t even tried very hard to pass one. A failure on the Democrats in my opinion. They should have proposed one and when the Republicans block it stand on the soap boxes and let everyone know just whose budget plan we have been stuck on. I’m so tired of hearing about Obama’s budget destroying the economy, he hasn’t passed a budget since he’s been in office. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/117 "2011-07-12T13:01:56Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Life must be good in Fantasy Land… > > […]Obama take office in 2008 and you not only have complete control of Congress, but the Senate & the White House as well. If you think Obama took office in 2008, you are indeed living in fantasy land. In Reality Land, the newly elected US president takes office in the January following the presidential elections, which are held in November, every four years. The most recent such election was held in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/118 "2011-07-12T13:51:36Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > You can’t balance this on the backs of the rich. There are not enough of them even if you took 100%. Nobody says you could balance the budget merely by taxing the rich. It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a good start. We’ve got a big hole to close. Saying “tut tut- the rich don’t have enough money to close the hole all by themselves so there’s no point to having them pay a penny more” is nutty. Here’s a clue- just because you make over $250K doesn’t make you a “job creator”. They can and should pay a little more. Raising Derek Jeter’s tax rates is not going to keep him from creating any jobs. Tax the rich, close the loopholes, end the oil subsidies, and you’re off to a good start. Want to cut spending? End the wars, downsize the army, let Medicare negotiate drug prices. Hiding behind the myth that taxes have a damn thing to do with job creation just digs the hole deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/119 "2011-07-12T15:46:29Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Democrats controlled congress and the checkbook from 2007 to Jan 2011. Obama take office in 2008 and you not only have complete control of Congress, but the Senate & the White House as well. The Democrats have never controlled the Senate, which requires 60 votes. Republicans in the Senate have stonewalled any attempt to balance the budget proposed by Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873/120 "2011-07-12T17:14:49Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Life must be good in Fantasy Land… > > Let’s just look back at a little timeline… > > Democrats controlled congress and the checkbook from 2007 to Jan 2011. Obama take office in 2008 and you not only have complete control of Congress, but the Senate & the White House as well. Pray tell, what happened to the deficit during this period? > > [According to the GAO](http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/deficit/) > > According to their simple chart > > 2007: -$275.5 B > 2008: -$1,009.1 TRILLION > 2009: -$1,253.7 TRILLION > Probably a good thing 2010 wasn’t included > > Instead of paying for those programs, looks to me like the controlling Democrats walked the check and left the US taxpayers holding the tab. How we got the deficit : > **[How Trillion-Dollar Deficits Were Created - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/business/economy/20090610-leonhardt-graphic.html)** > > To understand the looming deficits, The New York Times analyzed Congressional Budget Office projections of the budget surplus or deficit for the years 2009-12, President Obama’s current term. The budget office has been making estimates for these... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-republicans-play-chicken-with-the-economy/586873.md?page=7)