# How long will the Ly@ness thread be kept open? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529 "2012-05-30T09:39:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/1 "2012-05-30T09:39:13Z")
Has locking [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=640882) been kicked around the mod loop? It’s a thread about a MLM/Pyramid scheme. The question has been thoroughly asked and answered: it’s a scam. It’s getting bumped every once in a while by a newly registered SD guest who pretty much cuts and pastes standard blather about the programme and how wonderful it is for him. As a pyramid scheme, members are highly motivated to market the shit out of it so it’s likely that the thread will continue to show up in searches and continue to be revived. Perhaps a mod post in the thread to the effect “we’re about to close this thread. Would someone do a quick wrap-up in case a potential scam member stumbles on the thread and skips to the end?” Obviously the ‘someone’ would be an SDMB member, not a marketeer. I’m thinking of a wrap-up that summarizes the analysis of the programme, how it is a pyramid scheme, and why the marketed numbers don’t work. Just posting conclusions wouldn’t necessarily satisfy someone who is thinking of sending them money and is in need of having their ignorance fought. If they’re still interested in learning more, they can always start a new thread. Oh, I know **Dog80** didn’t mean it as a spam post, but perhaps breaking the link way back in the OP would help as well–if for nothing else to keep Google from counting the thread towards the scheme’s page rank. I wouldn’t normally suggest locking a thread just because people keep coming back to it, but it looks like the only people who are bumping it are meaty spambots (if they’re meaty at all). The replies are SDMB members dissembling the spam post. But then again, it seems a bit weird, particularly because the OP is a normal (for certain definitions of ‘normal’) SDMB poster, so I thought it would be interesting to hear the ATMB reaction. Oh, sorry for being cutesy about this OP’s title, but since the thread’s somewhat regular flow of traffic is due to Ly\*nesshole [del]members[/del] suckers searching on its name and posting accordingly, I didn’t want to give them another thread to find. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/2 "2012-05-30T12:45:19Z")
I second this request. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/3 "2012-05-30T12:51:20Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Perhaps a mod post in the thread to the effect “we’re about to close this thread. Would someone do a quick wrap-up in case a potential scam member stumbles on the thread and skips to the end?” Obviously the ‘someone’ would be an SDMB member, not a marketeer. I’m thinking of a wrap-up that summarizes the analysis of the programme, how it is a pyramid scheme, and why the marketed numbers don’t work. Just posting conclusions wouldn’t necessarily satisfy someone who is thinking of sending them money and is in need of having their ignorance fought. If they’re still interested in learning more, they can always start a new thread. ISTM that would be about the same locking religious thread with a post that says “Since God isn’t real, we’re just going to lock this”.\* They’re coming in to defend their product and so far they’re done a great job of staying contained to the one thread. I say, let’s keep’em in that one thread. My concern is that if you lock that thread they’re just going to start a new one each time. I vote to keep it open, it’s not hurting anyone. I stopped opening it a long time ago. I find it a bit amusing each time I see it pop up in my subscribed threads every few weeks with a member I’ve never heard of as the most recent poster. \*ETA I’m not trying to compare the pyramid scheme to religion just that in either argument no one is likely to change anyone’s mind. They only minds that are likely to be ‘changed’ are ones that were already there to begin with and just needed some convincing to join the other side. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/4 "2012-05-30T12:52:23Z")
If you could get five friends to report those threads, and if each of those could pass the message onto five of their friends, then after a while you wouldn’t need to do anything but sit back and watch the threads get closed. Send me money for more details. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/5 "2012-05-30T13:15:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > They’re coming in to defend their product and so far they’re done a great job of staying contained to the one thread. I say, let’s keep’em in that one thread. My concern is that if you lock that thread they’re just going to start a new one each time. I agree with this reasoning. There’s some value in having the whole story in one thread. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/6 "2012-05-30T13:16:28Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > If you could get five friends to report those threads, and if each of those could pass the message onto five of their friends, then after a while you wouldn’t need to do anything but sit back and watch the threads get closed. Send me money for more details. I’ll send you a dollar for each thread I report but for each thread everyone after me reports they have to send me a dollar. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/7 "2012-05-30T13:30:28Z")
It seems to me that the GQ there has been more than sufficiently asked and answered, and we’ve had threads closed around here for a lot less. All that thing is now is a giant spam magnet. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/8 "2012-05-30T13:33:49Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > It seems to me that the GQ there has been more than sufficiently asked and answered, and we’ve had threads closed around here for a lot less. All that thing is now is a giant spam magnet. That reminds me. I meant to mention in my first post that I wouldn’t just lock it if that’s what the mods choose to do but I would get rid of altogether so it doesn’t show up on Google anymore. But still, they’re staying contained to one thread and I thought the other posters were having fun with all the new members. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/9 "2012-05-30T13:36:46Z")
But Mods get rid of spam threads all the time. Why couldn’t they just do the same if this crap one resurfaces? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/10 "2012-05-30T13:57:11Z")
Personally, I don’t agree that the thread is spam. It’s clearly a high enough ranked thread that it’s getting attention from people involved in Lyoness, but the Dope is about fighting ignorance, and I’m sure we’re getting viewed by folks who are interested in knowing what it’s all about. Having a skeptical thread show up highly in the search results is, to my mind, a good thing, and closing the thread I think sends a message that we’re unwilling to discuss it with new people. We’ve had other threads before that kept ‘popping up’ from time to time – that one about some pharmacy discount cards springs to mind – and I don’t see a problem with it. Clearly we’re providing a venue for discussion that doesn’t seem to be fulfilled elsewhere, and it’s right in mine with the concept of the Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/11 "2012-05-30T14:03:52Z")
Mmmm…meaty spambots… I vote keep it open. I’d never even heard of that firm until the latest thread resurrection, and having the debunking pop to the surface every time one of the aforementioned MSers posts to it is a net benefit IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/12 "2012-05-30T14:18:51Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > If you could get five friends to report those threads, and if each of those could pass the message onto five of their friends, then after a while you wouldn’t need to do anything but sit back and watch the threads get closed. Send me money for more details. 😃 > [@Joey\_P](#): > > ISTM that would be about the same locking religious thread with a post that says “Since God isn’t real, we’re just going to lock this” The thing is, though, that whether or not it’s a scam isn’t the same as whether or not God exists. Irrespective to the ‘proof’ of either side, it’s still GD fodder, not something that can be reviewed and subject to GQ-level scrutiny. But this kind of reasoning is why I posted to ATMB–it’s a perspective I hadn’t thought of. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > That reminds me. I meant to mention in my first post that I wouldn’t just lock it if that’s what the mods choose to do but I would get rid of altogether so it doesn’t show up on Google anymore. The problem with sending it to the cornfield is that it also removes the deconstruction of it and explanation of why it’s a scam. A potential mark looking for information before losing their money won’t see the thread either. > [@](#): > > But still, they’re staying contained to one thread and I thought the other posters were having fun with all the new members. The thread was started by a Doper looking for information. Once the name got out to Google it began attracting the scam artists. If it were locked, scam artists would have to open a new thread, one that would be direct spam and easily removable. A later legitimate question would go through the same process as this thread. That’s kind of the distinguishing thing about it. The question was pretty much asked and answered–and hashed and chewed over from multiple angles. It’s not receiving bumps from actual questioners; it’s only receiving bumps from the equivalent of a spammer. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/13 "2012-05-30T14:30:19Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Personally, I don’t agree that the thread is spam. It’s clearly a high enough ranked thread that it’s getting attention from people involved in Lyoness, but the Dope is about fighting ignorance, and I’m sure we’re getting viewed by folks who are interested in knowing what it’s all about. Having a skeptical thread show up highly in the search results is, to my mind, a good thing, and closing the thread I think sends a message that we’re unwilling to discuss it with new people. > > We’ve had other threads before that kept ‘popping up’ from time to time – that one about some pharmacy discount cards springs to mind – and I don’t see a problem with it. Clearly we’re providing a venue for discussion that doesn’t seem to be fulfilled elsewhere, and it’s right in mine with the concept of the Straight Dope. From the registration agreement: This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, offers to trade or barter, charitable appeals, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved. If this does not fall within that definition I am a ballerina. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/14 "2012-05-30T14:48:07Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The thread was started by a Doper looking for information. Once the name got out to Google it began attracting the scam artists. If it were locked, scam artists would have to open a new thread, one that would be direct spam and easily removable. A later legitimate question would go through the same process as this thread. > > That’s kind of the distinguishing thing about it. The question was pretty much asked and answered–and hashed and chewed over from multiple angles. It’s not receiving bumps from actual questioners; it’s only receiving bumps from the equivalent of a spammer. I don’t think all these new members are scam artists, I think they’re people caught in a pyramid scheme/MLM\* and just trying to boost the business. As for locking the thread and disappearing any new threads…why bother, lets just keep them all in one place. IOW, I don’t think they know what they’re into. To post something I posted in the other thread…[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0GmwMl8FIY#t=0m17s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0GmwMl8FIY#t=0m17s) \*The new members remind me very much of when some I used to date got into MarketAmerica. She skirted around every question and finally said “They told me when people ask questions like this I should just have them come to a meeting” to which I responded “:dubious:” ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/15 "2012-05-30T14:58:43Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I don’t think all these new members are scam artists, I think they’re people caught in a pyramid scheme/MLM\* and just trying to boost the business. If someone is trying to get new members, they are definitionally a scam artist. They may be ignorant, they may believe their own bs, but if they’re trying to drum up business for a scam, they are a duck. No, wait, that’s not right. The thing about “keeping them all in one place” is that the influx of spam isn’t likely to continue if the thread is closed and the link removed. Take a look at the posters in there. The stream of bumps it’s received isn’t from people looking to learn about it, they’re from people looking to keep selling it. No one trying to sell it has lasted long enough to answer direct questions and explain why it isn’t a scam–they’re here to try and drum up business and that’s it. Keeping the thread open is keeping a thread reserved for people to try and spam the Dope. Perhaps it will die down on its own (hence the “how long” phrasing of this OP). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/16 "2012-05-30T15:00:11Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > If someone is trying to get new members, they are definitionally a scam artist. They may be ignorant, they may believe their own bs, but if they’re trying to drum up business for a scam, they are a duck. No, wait, that’s not right. > > The thing about “keeping them all in one place” is that the influx of spam isn’t likely to continue if the thread is closed and the link removed. Take a look at the posters in there. The stream of bumps it’s received isn’t from people looking to learn about it, they’re from people looking to keep selling it. No one trying to sell it has lasted long enough to answer direct questions and explain why it isn’t a scam–they’re here to try and drum up business and that’s it. > > Keeping the thread open is keeping a thread reserved for people to try and spam the Dope. Perhaps it will die down on its own (hence the “how long” phrasing of this OP). I got no dog in this fight and really don’t care one way or the other, but just to point out the other side of that argument…how many people researching the company have visited that thread without posting? ETA I take that back, I do have a small dog in that fight. I do worry that if it’s locked and not disappeared they’ll create new threads when they can’t post to it. As of right now, they’re in one thread. Let’em have it. No one else is forcing you to post to it or even look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/17 "2012-05-30T15:29:44Z")
Actually, I’ve been having fun posting to it. My fun isn’t a reason to keep it open, obviously. The question of researching is important. I think one reason people are quick to respond is the weight of unchallenged/last words. A scammer who comes in and says “but it’s great, you guys just don’t understand our secret rules or fancy program math” may leave the impression on lurkers that they have a point. Hence my suggestion that the final post be something that a lurker/researcher can quickly understand rather than wade through the 100+ pots to get an idea of how much of a pyramid scheme it is. Not really clamouring for it to be closed. It’s a touch vexing that we’ve got an open invitation to try and spam the dope, but that’s about it. Since it’s the honey-pot, I don’t see the scammers trying to open new threads. They don’t seem to be flitting from board to board posting spam willy-nilly. And any that do open with a “Hey, this programme is great, how 'bout you PM me for information about signing up” will be such blatant spam as to not survive. Another Dog80 post–an actual question–will just start the process again. Back to the original question. My contention is that while open, a regular stream of new guests will register and try and make a case for the scheme until they find no takers, then move on. It’s at 175 posts so far. Does it _ever_ get locked? What’s the over/under (I know nothing about sports betting, did I use the term correctly)? If they never stop bumping every few weeks/months, does it make it to 500 posts? A thousand? Not much more than 200? Or will it likely remain open and give the SRIotD a run for its money? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/18 "2012-05-30T15:52:07Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Having a skeptical thread show up highly in the search results is, to my mind, a good thing, and closing the thread I think sends a message that we’re unwilling to discuss it with new people. That hadn’t occurred to me (the search results thing). OK, I’m changing my answer. I support leaving it open. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/19 "2012-05-30T16:32:35Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The problem with sending it to the cornfield is that it also removes the deconstruction of it and explanation of why it’s a scam. A potential mark looking for information before losing their money won’t see the thread either. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I got no dog in this fight and really don’t care one way or the other, but just to point out the other side of that argument…how many people researching the company have visited that thread without posting? > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > That hadn’t occurred to me (the search results thing). OK, I’m changing my answer. I support leaving it open. Right now, it’s the #1 hit on Google for “lyoness scam” for me. Going through the thread, I noticed that, along with the spammers, there were a couple of posters who seem to have joined expressly to share their bad experiences with Lyoness. For some people, “Mathematics” is just as vague and incomprehensible as “Binary Accounting Matrix”. What will convince them is people like those posters saying very plainly, “Never mind about the reasons it’s \*supposed \*to work or not - _I did it, and I lost money_; here’s exactly what happened to me.” It seems like a public service of sorts for us to leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529/20 "2012-05-30T16:58:22Z")
I’m not sure why locking the thread would decrease the Google rank. The vast majority of Google results do not allow comments of any kind. The main problem I have with the thread is that, being in GQ, the spammer’s answers seems as legit as the other answers. In my opinion, once the correct answer is arrived at in a GQ thread, there should be no other wrong answers. Most of the time, this isn’t a problem, but, when it is, I think the thread should be locked. If you need a honeypot, why not one in the Pit, where we can voice our actual opinions of this stuff? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-the-ly-ness-thread-be-kept-open/623529.md?page=2)