# How long will US-Pakistan relations survive for? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655 "2011-04-25T15:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/1 "2011-04-25T15:22:17Z")
With recent relevations of how the US had listed the ISI (Pakistans intelligence service) as a terrorist organisation and to be treated as such, as well as drone attacks, and the CIA operative jailed then released for killing two people suspected of trying to rob him, I am amazed to how this relationship has survived and how cooperation against terrorism is still ongoing despite the huge public pressure in Pakistan to cut relations with the US and to limit US influence inside the country. How can the diplomatic relationshp survive, in my opinion the relations between the two countries is one crisis away from a major diplomatic rift which will be hard/impossible to repair. [Guantánamo Bay files: Pakistan’s ISI spy service listed as terrorist group](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/25/guantanamo-files-isi-inter-services-intelligence) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/2 "2011-04-25T15:40:34Z")
The 911 Timeline showed that Atta was funded by the ISI . Pakistan’s secret police chief sent Atta 100,000 dollars 2 days before the towers fell. They are not our friends . ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/3 "2011-04-25T15:43:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The 911 Timeline showed that Atta was funded by the ISI . Pakistan’s secret police chief sent Atta 100,000 dollars 2 days before the towers fell. They are not our friends . [Except it was wrong.](http://www.usatoday.com/money/attacks/2001-12-19-moneytrail.htm) It was a case of mistaken identity. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/4 "2011-04-25T15:47:30Z")
[http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geopolitics\_and\_9/11=isi&timeline=complete\_911\_timeline](http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geopolitics_and_9/11=isi&timeline=complete_911_timeline) Here is the Timeline and Pakistan’s influence and support of Ben laden. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/5 "2011-04-25T15:51:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Except it was wrong.](http://www.usatoday.com/money/attacks/2001-12-19-moneytrail.htm) It was a case of mistaken identity. > **[TIMELINE ENTRIES ABOUT ISI DIRECTOR LT. GEN. MAHMOOD AHMED](http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/main/mahmoodahmed.html)** It pointed at Ahmed. He was the one in American when the towers dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/6 "2011-04-25T15:54:19Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [TIMELINE ENTRIES ABOUT ISI DIRECTOR LT. GEN. MAHMOOD AHMED](http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/main/mahmoodahmed.html) > It pointed at Ahmed. He was the one in American when the towers dropped. Yes. But not _that_ Ahmed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/7 "2011-04-25T16:20:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes. But not _that_ Ahmed. Get real. How many “Ahmeds” could there be in the world? Three? Four? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/8 "2011-04-25T19:06:41Z")
And the majority of _them_ are fictional characters in epic desert movies. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/10 "2011-05-01T14:00:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They are not our friends . Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/11 "2011-05-01T14:04:21Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > With recent relevations of how the US had listed the ISI (Pakistans intelligence service) as a terrorist organisation and to be treated as such, as well as drone attacks, and the CIA operative jailed then released for killing two people suspected of trying to rob him, I am amazed to how this relationship has survived and how cooperation against terrorism is still ongoing despite the huge public pressure in Pakistan to cut relations with the US and to limit US influence inside the country. > > How can the diplomatic relationshp survive, in my opinion the relations between the two countries is one crisis away from a major diplomatic rift which will be hard/impossible to repair. > > [Guantánamo Bay files: Pakistan’s ISI spy service listed as terrorist group](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/25/guantanamo-files-isi-inter-services-intelligence) Both countries have very different views on the endgame in Afghanistan. And interests. As it is the US has at present zero material influence in Pakistan and with the Government currently running around finding \*someone \* to join the coalition and save its job, not likely to improve. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/12 "2011-05-03T01:19:25Z")
If the US could send in a force to seize Pakistan’s nuclear weapons (or just bribe the guards) could we then just tell them to fuck off? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/13 "2011-05-03T01:33:11Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And the majority of _them_ are fictional characters in epic desert movies. And one of them is an undead terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/14 "2011-05-03T01:49:38Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > And one of them is an undead terrorist. Q: What’s the difference between a zombie terrorist and a normal terrorist? A: The zombie terrorists actually like brains! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/15 "2011-05-03T04:06:44Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > If the US could send in a force to seize Pakistan’s nuclear weapons (or just bribe the guards) could we then just tell them to fuck off? Is this a serious question? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/16 "2011-05-03T04:11:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is this a serious question? I’m guessing it is. I’m hoping your response isn’t too subtle to supply him with his answer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/17 "2011-05-03T13:11:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Q: What’s the difference between a zombie terrorist and a normal terrorist? > > A: The zombie terrorists actually like brains! The one I was thinking of keeps saying, “Silence! I KEEL you!” Now Jeff Dunham can add a Bin Laden puppet to his repertoire. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/18 "2011-05-03T13:15:08Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m guessing it is. I’m hoping your response isn’t too subtle to supply him with his answer. I can see how that would be a concern. With that in mind: No. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/19 "2011-05-03T17:19:28Z")
US-Pakistan relations will survive for the forseeable future because there’s more to them than just the terrorism problem. There are also lots of pipelines the west wants to build through Pakistan, a port in Balochistan province that the US wants to export natural gas from, etc. etc. Even from just the terrorism/national security angle, we’ve got to keep propping up whatever civilian/military government is in power because if Pakistan falls into its constituent parts it means big trouble in the region, especially over Kashmir, some rump Islamist government with nukes, etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/20 "2011-05-04T14:01:50Z")
I’d think the country splitting into its component parts would in the long term enhance stability, there’s too many competing interests vying to be top dog of the centralised government. Same with Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655/21 "2011-05-04T14:32:37Z")
A country being a friend or not is not binary (yes/no). It is a continuum. There are many in Pakistan that are friendly to the U.S. There are many that are not. In my opinion, you cannot just yank support because some or even many don’t like us. One needs to fight and support the friends of the U.S. in Pakistan. Not punish them because of the actions of people that are not friends. However, I agree that we should re-evaluate whether who we think are friends are actually friends… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-will-us-pakistan-relations-survive-for/579655.md?page=2)