# How long would it take the Royal Flying Corps to figure out an F-22? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367 "2014-09-23T20:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/21 "2014-09-24T06:33:15Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Ah, they’d figure it out as easily as the proto-humans figured out that big black monolith in 2001. :rolleyes: > > Get it airborne? Heck, they’d never get as far as starting the engine. I think people misunderestimate humans in such scenarios. We were collectively smart enough to develop much of that tech within a human lifetime; having the end product dropped in our lap like that would accelerate things a great deal. I also think we’d guess pretty early on that the vehicle has weaponry, and identify the likely components for that purpose. Whether we’d blow up the hanger first by pressing every button, I don’t know (I suspect it can’t be that easy to fire missiles while on the ground, but of course I don’t know anything about the pilot interface). But yeah, I would agree that there’s no way the thing is going to be _flown_. > [@Sage Rat](#): > > My guess would be that men in black suits with black sunglasses would quickly descend to confiscate the jet Nitpick: _old-timey_ black suits and glasses ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/22 "2014-09-24T09:38:13Z")
I’m wildly speculating that there is zero chance of a WW1 flyboy getting a modern jet off the ground without leaving a large hole in the landscape. It’s an entirely different kind of flying… altogether. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/23 "2014-09-24T12:00:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I read a trilogy involving U.S. Navy warships that were caught up in a secret weapon. IIRC, the idea was that you could teleport a small bit of antimatter or something directly into a terrorist’s skull and blow him up. Something went terribly wrong, and the fleet – or at least the surviving ships – was scattered across the planet and back to 1941 or 1942. (I don’t remember if it was in time to avert the Pearl Harbor attack, but I think it was later.) No satellites, no GPS; but shipboard intranet had plenty of data on the server, both official and unofficial. Using these files, the Allies built Douglas A-4 Skyhawks and then advanced to Vought F-8 Crusaders and A-7E Corsair IIs. Maybe F-4s, and maybe more advanced aircraft; but I don’t remember. > > So basically the technology that was manageable for the Allies in 1942 was 10 to 15 years in the future. The P-47 might be manageable for the RFC, but I think a Hawker Hurricane would be more attainable. You’re thinking of the [Axis of Time trilogy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Time) by John Birmingham. I highly recommend them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/24 "2014-09-24T12:01:14Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > It’s an entirely different kind of flying… altogether. It’s an entirely different kind of flying. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/25 "2014-09-24T13:13:22Z")
I very much doubt it would ever successfully be flown. The first person to get it wrong would destroy it, and it would take decades just to develop tooling to replace the composite surfaces. I’m fairly sure I couldn’t figure out how to properly mount a missile on an underwing pylon, much less in the F-22’s internal bay. > [@bump](#): > > Would it even be able to really take off and land from a 1914-era grass runway? Seems to me it would be too short and too soft to really work, like **Ravenman** suggests. The F-22 can take off in a surprisingly short distance, which is mostly a side effect of the high maneuverability modern fighter aircraft are designed for (as opposed to the “missile with wings” approach of the 50s and 60s): 1500 feet at maximum takeoff weight. You couldn’t launch one from a grass airstrip, but you could probably do it from any long well-paved surface, such as [Brooklands](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklands) (which like many British racing tracks of that era doubled as an airfield anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/26 "2014-09-24T13:45:56Z")
Those magnificent men in that flying machine, Don’t go up-uppity-up, they stay down-diddly-down down They gawk at the buttons, they stare at the screen Not going up-uppity up: staying down-diddly-down down Up, down, wiggle it round; Whatever they do they just stay on the ground All these buttons to press They’re getting themselves in a terrible mess It looks like it should fly; But there ain’t no way to go up in the sky. Throw those damn chocks away It doesn’t seem we’ll go flying today Those magnificent men in that flying machine Don’t go up-uppity-up, they stay down-diddly-down down There’s no propellers, what can it all mean? There’s no up-uppity-up, they’re stuck down-diddly-down down There’s no way they can know What they must do to make this thing go. “Hold on, look at those things Some bloody idiot’s stuck on the wings Get rid of them and we’ll soon make it zoom…” The last thing they heard was a terrific BOOM. Those magnificent men in that flying machine They went up-uppity-up, and came down-diddly-down down If you know nothing, then don’t be too keen Or it’s up-uppity-up, and come down-diddly-down down ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/27 "2014-09-24T13:52:37Z")
Bravo, sir. _Bravo_. God, I haven’t seen that movie in years. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/28 "2014-09-24T14:19:17Z")
I played the song to my kids as a break from the Disney/nursery rhyme fare. Now I’ve got to make time to watch it with them. (“See kids, this is called\* national stereotyping\*. And it’s fun!”) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/29 "2014-09-24T15:04:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The F-22 can take off in a surprisingly short distance, which is mostly a side effect of the high maneuverability modern fighter aircraft are designed for (as opposed to the “missile with wings” approach of the 50s and 60s): 1500 feet at maximum takeoff weight. I was thinking landings would be more problematic actually- length and material would be an issue, I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/30 "2014-09-24T15:17:37Z")
A short story I read concerned an advanced aircraft and it’s pilot time traveling to WWI. I believe he filtered kerosene to obtain more fuel. His missiles wouldn’t track cloth covered aircraft, and he couldn’t fly as slowly as they. He finally discovered that he could take them down by flying through their formation at Mach I, and the other aircraft would be torn apart. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/31 "2014-09-24T15:23:03Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In WWI they used rotary engines, where the crankcase and cylinders rotated around the crankshaft. There were also in-line engines, such as the Liberty V-12 and the Curtis OX-5 V-8. > > The P-47 is actually a better choice for this thread than a Hurricane, since it’s more advanced. If the RFC could figure out how to work it, the Hurricane would be relatively easy. The biggest problem I see is that the T-bolt’s stall speed was pretty close to the maximum speeds of many WWI airplanes. They’d really need to invest in some very long concrete runways to allow test pilots to get a feel for it without having to fly a circuit. Thus even a Jug would have little prayer of successfully engaging a WWI craft, much less a modern jet (well, a Harrier maybe…). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/32 "2014-09-24T15:41:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A short story I read concerned an advanced aircraft and it’s pilot time traveling to WWI. I believe he filtered kerosene to obtain more fuel. His missiles wouldn’t track cloth covered aircraft, and he couldn’t fly as slowly as they. He finally discovered that he could take them down by flying through their formation at Mach I, and the other aircraft would be torn apart. > 🙂 Sorta the way the F-14s messed with the Zeros in _The Final Countdown_. Except they just blew past them on afterburner, not at mach speeds. After watching the shock wave from a B-1 over water, I believe that would be the best weapon. One well-timed pass could down an entire front’s worth of 1917 aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/33 "2014-09-24T15:58:22Z")
There is so much engineering, maintenance, and training involved. I can’t imagine they could transition. It would be like being used to an old manual cash register and then being given a computer, with no computer training or experience. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/34 "2014-09-24T16:00:05Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > (I suspect it can’t be that easy to fire missiles while on the ground, but of course I don’t know anything about the pilot interface). There are multiple interlocks to prevent using weapons while on the ground. Even the radar targeting system won’t activate until you’re in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/35 "2014-09-24T16:25:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I was thinking landings would be more problematic actually- length and material would be an issue, I’d think. It actually requires less space to land than to take off. Largely because of the fact that friction is on your side on landing but working against you on takeoff. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A short story I read concerned an advanced aircraft and it’s pilot time traveling to WWI. I believe he filtered kerosene to obtain more fuel. His missiles wouldn’t track cloth covered aircraft, and he couldn’t fly as slowly as they. He finally discovered that he could take them down by flying through their formation at Mach I, and the other aircraft would be torn apart. > 🙂 I don’t really think that would be a problem. A modern infrared targeting system can find a shielded jet exhaust, so it shouldn’t have much trouble locating an unshielded (indeed, unfaired) piston engine even if the latter runs much cooler. > [@control-z](#): > > There is so much engineering, maintenance, and training involved. I can’t imagine they could transition. It would be like being used to an old manual cash register and then being given a computer, with no computer training or experience. I don’t think that’s a very good analogy. I got a Windows 95 machine in 1996 and taught myself to use it with almost no computer experience (my previous computer was a 1982 BBC Micro which was hardly more advanced than a typewriter.) If I crashed the computer, I used the restore disk. If you crash the plane, there’s no restore feature. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/36 "2014-09-24T16:46:14Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I have been on and seen airfields of grass or dirt that WWII warplanes used quite easily. Right after a rain might be hard for a fully loaded P-47. > > Saw a DC-6 fly off a grass strip, a P-38 many times, B-25 & A-26. > > FW 190’s were found all over Germany hidden in the trees beside a clearing that they could fly out of. > Grass / dirt runways are not a problem from what I have learned, heard & seen. > > YMMV It’s not a problem if you already know how to fly the aircraft. But consider that you have an aircraft with an empty weight of five tons and a loaded weight of six and a half tons, with a takeoff speed near the maximum speed of WWI aircraft, and with about twenty times the horsepower. You don’t just pick your best pilot and send him out to fly it. The reason I said you’d need a lot of concrete is so that a pilot can work up to it with high-speed taxis, then ‘hops’ in ground effect and stopping before the end of the runway, and so on until he at least has a chance of successfully getting it off the ground. That takes a lot of smooth real estate. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/37 "2014-09-24T19:31:49Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I’m wildly speculating that there is zero chance of a WW1 flyboy getting a modern jet off the ground without leaving a large hole in the landscape. It’s an entirely different kind of flying… altogether. It’s an entirely different kind of flying. Anyway, if you need someone to take that baby up then I’m your guy _slips on Rayban’s_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/38 "2014-09-24T19:43:22Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Anyway, if you need someone to take that baby up then I’m your guy _slips on Rayban’s_ Nice user name, Dude. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/39 "2014-09-24T19:45:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Nice user name, Dude. 🙂 Heh, thanks! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367/40 "2014-09-24T20:54:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > OTOH, would an F-22 pilot be able to fly a WW1 aircraft? I mean they were basically a stick and some pedals and were very nose heavy. Do they even train on piston aircraft? I don’t think so, but they do train with [these](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor#T-34C_Turbo-Mentor) which are based on a piston aircraft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-the-royal-flying-corps-to-figure-out-an-f-22/699367.md?page=3)