# How Lord "Snowdon" got his name and is this explanation easily understandable to hoi polloi? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054 "2017-01-13T17:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/21 "2017-01-13T23:46:55Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > So it boils down to geography of Wales. > > You guys learned that in school? In travel ads? Nature documentaries? > > And yes I know they/you guys call them adverts. I’m American, and I know it because I’ve been there a few times. I used to live in Lancaster (the one in Lancashire, not the one in Pennsylvania); Snowdonia, like the Lake District, isn’t very far away by train or car if you want a weekend trip to the mountains. Visit Snowdonia sometime if you get a chance. It’s lovely when it’s not pouring rain (and if it\* is \*pouring rain, there are old slate mines that give tours). ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/22 "2017-01-14T00:39:21Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > (i.e. Conrad Black chose the title Lord Black of Crossharbour, whatever that means) Crossharbour is a neighbourhood on the Isle of Dogs in the East End of London. (It was in the heart of the old docks and I’d presume that the name derived from the fact that the harbour basin there ran across most of the width of the peninsula.) Conrad Black’s connection with the area was that he owned the _Daily Telegraph_ at the time and its main printing works - but not its editorial offices - were located there. However, this always was seen as a bit of an odd choice, especially since, even to the locals, “Crossharbour” was mainly just one more station on the local light urban rail system. It smacked of calling himself after a Tube station. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/23 "2017-01-14T01:35:51Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > The Yellowstone analogy is a good one because I assume that most Americans will have heard of it, just as most Brits will have heard of Snowdon. However, if you showed them a blank outline of the country, I think that only a few would be able to put a finger on where it is- even the correct State or UK country would probably be a stretch. On the other hand, “Carnarvon” in Carnarvonshire would be pretty distinctly Welsh-sounding to a Brit, as much as most Americans would know that something like “San Antonio” was a Spanish name and guess that it was in the southwest somewhere. So I think, at least, most Brits would be able to say from that newspaper quote 'he was named after that famous mountain in Wales because his family was from somewhere in Wales". ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/24 "2017-01-14T01:52:15Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > And geography isn’t needed at all. Take Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher. (Her husband was given a Baronet after she was no longer PM, but she got her own title later.) There is no associated “Thatcher”. [Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven](https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/margaret-thatcher) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/25 "2017-01-14T03:21:56Z")
OK, I’ll bite: Kesteven is a place, not a battle, which might include the site of some colossal industrial union de-nationalization demonstrations. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/26 "2017-01-14T03:31:15Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > OK, I’ll bite: Kesteven is a place, not a battle, which might include the site of some colossal industrial union de-nationalization demonstrations. > > Right? Wrong. It’s where she grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/27 "2017-01-14T03:35:06Z")
You mean right. A “site of some colossal industrial union de-nationalization demonstration” was an example of a battle, obviously a great victory a la a la main. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/28 "2017-01-14T04:15:34Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > You mean right. A “site of some colossal industrial union de-nationalization demonstration” was an example of a battle, obviously a great victory a la a la main. Sorry, that’s a little too elliptical for me, Leo. I’m not used to someone who communicates solely by allusion and metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/29 "2017-01-14T04:23:42Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/30 "2017-01-14T05:39:19Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > [Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven](https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/margaret-thatcher) That page is not correct. Kesteven wasn’t part of her title. She was [just Baroness Thatcher](https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/52978/page/11045). If she’d been Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven, it would have been gazetted “BARONESS THATCHER OF KESTEVEN, of Kesteven in the County of Lincolnshire.” I think the order of service for her funeral got it wrong too. > [@Colophon](#): > > So I’m not too sure why Snowdon wasn’t called Lord Armstrong-Jones, or Lloyd-Webber isn’t called Lord Sydmonton, but I’m sure there are reasons for it. Although he did become Lord Armstrong-Jones later on. All peers who were the initial holders of hereditary peerages were offered life peerages. He accepted, and was given a life barony in the name of Armstrong-Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/31 "2017-01-14T05:50:16Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > That page is not correct. Kesteven wasn’t part of her title. She was [just Baroness Thatcher](https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/52978/page/11045). If she’d been Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven, it would have been gazetted “BARONESS THATCHER OF KESTEVEN, of Kesteven in the County of Lincolnshire.” I think the order of service for her funeral got it wrong too. [She left the House of Commons in 1992, and was appointed a life peerage in the House of Lords in the same year, receiving the title of Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven.](https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/margaret-thatcher) From an official UK government website. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/32 "2017-01-14T05:51:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [She left the House of Commons in 1992, and was appointed a life peerage in the House of Lords in the same year, receiving the title of Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven.](https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/margaret-thatcher) > > From an official UK government website. That’s literally the same page. And it’s still just as wrong. (My cite was the official legal notice of the creation of her peerage. I’m going to believe it over the online equivalent of a tourist pamphlet.) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/33 "2017-01-14T09:16:03Z")
Another factor in giving out titles within the royal family is the semi-political function of ensuring some sort of symbolic connections to or acknowledgenents of different parts of the UK (as also happens with coin designs, for instance). So Charles, as well as being Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall (as is customary for the heir) has a bunch of titles relating to Scotland as well; his father, brothers and the sons of his royal great-uncles (and their heirs) also have “courtesy” titles attaching to places elsewhere than the one they’re best known by, all across the country between them. Doesn’t come with any lands, it’s just a symbolic thing. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/34 "2017-01-14T10:41:22Z")
Snowdon is in Carnarvon. Linley couldn’t call himself Carnarvon because there is already an Eal of Carnarvon, quite a famous one in fact. Not only does the current Earl still live at Highclere Castle (Downton Abbey of the TV series) but the 5th Earl and Howard Carter discovered the tomb of Tutankhamun in 1922. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/35 "2017-01-14T23:10:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Sorry, that’s a little too elliptical for me, Leo. I’m not used to someone who communicates solely by allusion and metaphor. Shaka, when the walls fell. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/36 "2017-01-15T09:33:14Z")
This American only knew about Snowdonia because he was once a 13-year-old Led Zeppelin fan (like many), and that was a favorite region of theirs to inspire and record folksy acoustic music (notably the album _LZ III_). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/37 "2017-01-15T19:01:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Titles also don’t have to contain locations in the UK or even in a current area of the British Commonwealth. > > E.g., Bernard Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein, from his victory at El Alamein in Egypt. (Not sure what happened to the “El”.)… Or Earl Mountbatten of Burma: [Lord Mountbatten - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054/38 "2017-01-15T22:26:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Shaka, when the walls fell. LOL I was about to post something along those lines, it was the first thing that came to mind. We have some real nerds on these boards. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-lord-snowdon-got-his-name-and-is-this-explanation-easily-understandable-to-hoi-polloi/777054.md?page=1)