# How many admirals in the US Navy? How many ships **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528 "2009-08-15T16:16:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/41 "2009-08-19T14:32:04Z")
Slight tangent… a great photo I wanted to share, from the USS _Constitution_’s 200th-birthday celebration in 1997. Her escorts are the frigate USS _Halyburton_ and the destroyer USS _Ramage_: [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/USS\_Constitution\_Sail200d.jpg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/USS_Constitution_Sail200d.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/42 "2009-08-19T15:52:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Well, that throw’s Polycarp’s information into question. There are 301 admirals listed on this bio page. > > And of the top 20 links on the list, all are active. I was thinking maybe some were retired, but I haven’t hit any yet, and I’m not gonna go through the whole list. My numbers were taken from the US Navy’s website (except the quote from Wikipedia, which was a clearer summary of what was said on the Navy website. The ‘excess’ Admirals may be retired (flag officers don’t ‘retire’ in the sense of terminating their relationship with the service but are instead put on the retired list, subject to recall in time of emergency) or authorized by Presidential proclamation or something. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/43 "2009-08-19T16:52:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > … small-c “commodore”… This history of the [Commodore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(United_States)) rank is quite a confusing mess. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/44 "2009-08-19T17:18:14Z")
> [@robby](#): > > **Really Not All That Bright** , while the commissioned ships make up the “tip of the spear” for the U.S. Navy, there are many other facilities and installations that must be managed and led, including training facilities, maintenance depots, etc. The U.S. Navy also has one of the larger air forces in the world. Fair enough. Congress has to approve promotions? Is this just in the case of USN admirals and Army/AF/Marine generals, or all officers? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/45 "2009-08-19T17:23:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Congress has to approve promotions? Is this just in the case of USN admirals and Army/AF/Marine generals, or all officers? Like other nominations to civilian positions, the Senate approves nominations for most military officer promotions. IIRC, promotions below the rank of major/lieutenant commander are not submitted to the Senate, and each promotion to or above those ranks must be confirmed by the Senate. Each time a senior officer changes jobs (e.g., when Admiral Roughead moved from his four-star Fleet Forces Command job to Chief of Naval Operations) also requires Senate confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/46 "2009-08-19T17:29:15Z")
Are we talking about rubber-stamp approval, or do they actually vote on it? Seems like it’d take a lot of time. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/47 "2009-08-19T17:57:44Z")
For some nominations, it consists of a list of many names. It might say, “For appointment to the grade of Commander, 523 names, beginning with Aaron B. Aaronson, and ending with Zebulon Q. Xylophone,” and then the name of each and every person being nominated would be printed. All of those nominations would be approved as a single matter, usually by voice vote, by the appropriate committee and the whole Senate. The same process happens for the other uniformed services (like NOAA) and the Foreign Service in the State Department. These things are routinely approved by the Senate, it isn’t like there’s a debate held on these things, unless it is a senior position and there’s some controversy or importance to the nomination (like a few years ago when General Petraeus was nominated to be the top general in Iraq). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/48 "2009-08-19T18:03:20Z")
Holding up approval of a list of promotions can also give a senator a chance to get in a dig against the Administration, or to try to force a change in a Pentagon policy she doesn’t like, or to embarrass/punish officers for past perceived misconduct (as happened with several Navy admirals involved to varying degrees in the Tailhook scandal, IIRC). But yes, most times these promotion lists breeze through. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/49 "2009-08-20T14:43:37Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > The one guy they show in the red waistcoat on the front page, the Command Senior Chief (job title), is a Senior Chief (rank). > > Usually the highest ranked enlisted is the Command Master Chief - I wonder why the title has been changed on this ship? You don’t\* have \*to have a Master Chief (E9) as Command Chief of every unit, just as every captain-of-a-ship is not a Captain (O6). ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/50 "2009-08-20T16:43:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > You don’t \* have \*to have a Master Chief (E9) as Command Chief of every unit, just as every captain-of-a-ship is not a Captain (O6). I understand that (I’m a retired Navy EMC). It’s just that the job _title_ is Command Senior Chief, not Command Master Chief (or, in the case of submarines, Chief Of The Boat.) Thinking about it since I first brought this up, it may have something to do with the fact that the Connie’s MSC has retained his old rating designation. Starting about 8 years ago or so, whenever someone was designated as a CMC, their rating designation changed to something new (can’t remember what that new designation is, though.) It may be that one of the legal requirements to get that designator is to be an E-9, so when an E-8 (damn even-numbered chief) holds that position, the job title has to change to reflect his rank. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/51 "2009-08-20T17:16:49Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > I understand that (I’m a retired Navy EMC). It’s just that the job _title_ is Command Senior Chief, not Command Master Chief (or, in the case of submarines, Chief Of The Boat.) > > …It may be that one of the legal requirements to get that designator is to be an E-9, so when an E-8 (damn even-numbered chief) holds that position, the job title has to change to reflect his rank. Exactly. I don’t know if it’s a legal requirement, but in my experience, if the senior enlisted person assigned to a unit is a Senior Chief Petty Officer, he/she is designated the Command Senior Chief. If the senior enlisted person is a Master Chief Petty Officer, he/she is designated the Command Master Chief. As you say, on a submarine, they would be designated the Chief of the Boat (COB) in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/52 "2009-08-23T13:19:22Z")
I thought the job title was “Senior Enlisted Advisor” and the rate was (depending on pay grade) “Command Chief Petty Officer,” “Command Senior Chief Petty Officer,” or “Command Master Chief Petty Officer.” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/53 "2009-08-24T14:39:03Z")
What exactly are the duties and functions of the uppermost grades of enlisted man – E-7 and up? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/54 "2009-08-24T19:05:03Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What exactly are the duties and functions of the uppermost grades of enlisted man – E-7 and up? The _exact_ duties will depend on the exact billet the Chief was assigned to. > **[Chief petty officer | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Petty_Officer#United_States)** > > Chief petty officer is an E-7 enlisted rank in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard, just above petty officer first class and below senior chief petty officer. Chief petty officers are classified as senior non-commissioned officers. The grade of chief petty officer was established on April 1, 1893, for the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Congress first authorized the U.S. Coast Guard to use the promotion to chief petty officer on 18 May 1920. > Unlike petty officer first class and lower rates, advancement to ch... Generally, though, the Chief Petty Officer is supposed to be a true “leader”, and this is even partly acknowledged by the fact that they wear khaki colored working uniforms that look much the same as the officers uniform. The Chief is a manager, and mentor. They are supposed to know the rules, and they are also supposed to know how to get things done “in the real world”. (They should have about 10 years active service by the time they have earned their rank, so they should be pretty familiar with military life and regulations.) They share a bond with a lot of tradition behind the rank (and responsibilities), and they help each other out. > **[Welcome to the Goatlocker](https://www.goatlocker.org/resources/cpo/history/creed1.htm)** They are supposed to anticipate what can “go wrong” in plans and activities, and be ready with solutions, much moreso than when they were a Petty Officer First Class. As a lot of the very junior enlisted (and to some extent, officer) can still have some “youthful exuberance” left over from their teen years, a Chief may have to learn how to deal with managing these people in a manner that benefits both the service member, and the service. … Of course, there are good and bad Chiefs, just as there are good and bad leaders everywhere else in life. ---
**Author:** ![Zippezip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zippezip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zippezip)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/55 "2012-12-05T12:15:52Z")
From Navy Personnel: February 13th, 2012 For FY-2013, the projected United States Navy active duty end-strength according to the Department of the Navy budget estimates: Commissioned Officers 0-10 Admiral 10 0-9 Vice Admiral 37 0-8 Rear Admiral (UH) 74 0-7 Rear Admiral (LH) 114 0-6 Captain 3,235 0-5 Commander 6,738 0-4 Lieutenant Commander 9,525 0-3 Lieutenant 17,540 0-2 Lieutenant (JG) 6,331 0-1 Ensign 6,149 TOTAL 49,753 Warrant Officers W-5 Warrant Officer 59 W-4 Warrant Officer 352 W-3 Warrant Officer 617 W-2 Warrant Officer 517 TOTAL 1,545 Total Officer Personnel 51,298 Enlisted Personnel E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer 2,414 E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer 5,726 E-7 Chief Petty Officer 19,715 E-6 1st Class Petty Officer 45,670 E-5 2nd Class Petty Officer 60,339 E-4 3rd Class Petty Officer 61,653 E-3 Seaman 44,005 E-2 Seaman Apprentice 17,071 E-1 Seaman Recruit 10,319 Total Enlisted 266,912 Total Officer and Enlisted 318,210 Midshipmen 4,490 TOTAL END STRENGTH 322,700 ---
**Author:** ![Zippezip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zippezip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zippezip)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/56 "2012-12-05T12:19:13Z")
So the answer is roughly 235 if you don’t count Commodores who are Captains acting as Admirals and so there are not more Admirals than ships. But it does not matter cuz the Army has more boats than the Navy, so loan a few to the Army. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Zippezip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zippezip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zippezip)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/57 "2012-12-05T12:20:16Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What exactly are the duties and functions of the uppermost grades of enlisted man – E-7 and up? Drinking Good Coffee and berating Ensigns and Non-Coms. ---
**Author:** ![Zippezip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zippezip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zippezip)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/58 "2012-12-05T12:21:49Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There are 285 active ships in the Navy. This number includes about 48 submarines. > > Total officer complement (from Ensign to four-star Admiral) is 52,291. Wikipedia says: > > (Translated, that says that the total number of Rear, Vice, and full Admirals is 216, that no more than 35 may be three or four stars, and that no more than nine may be four-star Admirals – and they only get the fourth star if appointed to a position that is to be held by a full Admiral. These caps may be waived by the President in time of war or national emergency.) > > So clearly the statement which the OP questioned is invalid, at least at the present time. [http://www.navycs.com/blogs/2012/02/13/2013-projected-active-duty-end-strength](http://www.navycs.com/blogs/2012/02/13/2013-projected-active-duty-end-strength) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/59 "2012-12-05T14:46:52Z")
> [@Zippezip](#): > > …the Army has more boats than the Navy, so loan a few to the Army. LOL. Really? Are you including, like, zodiac dinghies or something? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528/60 "2012-12-05T16:46:40Z")
> [@Zippezip](#): > > From Navy Personnel: > > February 13th, 2012 > > TOTAL END STRENGTH > > 322,700 It was probably somewhat less back in 2009, when this thread was started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-admirals-in-the-us-navy-how-many-ships/506528.md?page=4)