# How many African-Americans are descendants of only (all) Africans? Impossible to ascertain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117 "2013-06-28T13:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/1 "2013-06-28T13:59:12Z")
See subjects. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/2 "2013-06-28T14:49:17Z")
Did you miss the lessson when it was explained we all come from Africa? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/3 "2013-06-28T15:24:21Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Did you miss the lessson when it was explained we all come from Africa? How about we limit the question to “descendants of people who lived in Africa within the last 1000 years”? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/4 "2013-06-28T15:29:54Z")
Are you looking for how many descendants of slaves are descendants of only Africans? Or, would you include naturalized citizens (white and black) from anywhere of the continent of Africa? Second generation Ghanaian living in the US? Naturalized South Africans? I’m not saying I have the answers for any of this, but I’m curious as to what you’re after. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/5 "2013-06-28T15:32:19Z")
Is he talking about US citizens, or maybe Brazilian, or Venezuelan, or Cuban, or 30 other nationalities, or all in combination? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/6 "2013-06-28T15:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > African Americans… are citizens or residents of the United States who have total or partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. The term is not usually used for black residents of other countries in the Americas. > **[African Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_american)** > > African Americans, also known as Black Americans and formerly also called Afro-Americans, are an American racial or ethnic group consisting of Americans with partial or total ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. African Americans constitute the second largest ethno-racial group in the US after White Americans. The term "African American" generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States. > While some Black immigrants or their children may also come to i... ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/7 "2013-06-28T16:15:06Z")
Ah, but what about people who reside in the US but are from other countries, either themselves or their parents? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/8 "2013-06-28T16:19:23Z")
There was a PBS program or series a while back on this topic (I think the host was Henry Louis Gates, but I might be mixing this up with another show). They did DNA (I think) testing of a bunch of African-American men in a southern town, and every single one of them had some European ancestry. These men were all different shades, including as dark as you are likely to see, but the shade had no apparent relationship to the percentage of European ancestry showing in their DNA. They were all descendants of slaves, and the conclusion was that slave women were the victims of a lot of forced intercourse with whites and had a lot of mixed race children, who also ended up as slaves. Of course, it was a pretty small sample (less than a dozen men, in a barber shop as I recall) but it was still an eye-opener. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/9 "2013-06-28T16:34:09Z")
> **[Most recent common ancestor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor)** > > In biology and genetic genealogy, the most recent common ancestor (MRCA), also known as the last common ancestor (LCA) or concestor,\[note 1\] of a set of organisms is the most recent individual from which all the organisms of the set are descended. The term is also used in reference to the ancestry of groups of genes (haplotypes) rather than organisms. > The MRCA of a set of individuals can sometimes be determined by referring to an established pedigree. However, in general, it is impossible to ide... If you set the bar at 2,000 years, the answer to the OP’s question is possibly “None” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/10 "2013-06-28T18:35:45Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > [Most recent common ancestor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor) > > If you set the bar at 2,000 years, the answer to the OP’s question is possibly “None” That would assume though that the most-recent-common ancestor was African. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/11 "2013-06-28T18:45:52Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Did you miss the lessson when it was explained we all come from Africa? > [@](#): > > Is he talking about US citizens, or maybe Brazilian, or Venezuelan, or Cuban, or 30 other nationalities, or all in combination? **Moderator Note** **BrokenBriton** , I think the intent of the question is quite obvious and your snark is not warranted. Let’s refrain from answers like this in the future. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/12 "2013-06-28T19:00:36Z")
There may be some, but the percentage is probably quite small. From [here:](http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/28/it-s-rare-to-find-a-black-american-with-100-percent-african-ancestry-gates-says.html) > [@](#): > > According to noted educator Henry Louis Gates, there are no Black Americans with 100 percent African ancestry. > > “We have never tested an African-American who is 100 percent African,” Gates said, speaking at Grambling State University. “The average African-American is 77 percent Black or African, 17 percent European and less than 5 percent Native American." > > Gates is a professor at Harvard University and director of the school’s W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African-American Research. > > Gates was the host and co-producer of the PBS show “African American Lives" and “African American Lives 2.” In those series, the ancestry of more than a dozen African-Americans were traced using genealogical and historic tools in addition to DNA testing. Gates is continuing his look at ancestry with the new PBS show “Finding Your Roots.” Obviously, this only applies to Black Americans whose ancestry dates back to before the end of slavery. More recent immigrants from Africa will often have only sub-Saharan African ancestry. And I wouldn’t put it in such absolute terms. There may be a few African Americans with only ancestry from Africa, but there are probably not many. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/13 "2013-06-28T19:14:01Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > [Most recent common ancestor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor) > > If you set the bar at 2,000 years, the answer to the OP’s question is possibly “None” The MRCA concept is a little more subtle than the Wikipedia article makes it out to be, in my opinion. I suspect the concept of the Most Recent Common Ancestor is not what you think it is. The MRCA does not have a very direct bearing on the actual percent makeup of genetic material, and in fact it’s possible that no genetic material at all exists in a given individual from their (statistically-calculated) MRCA. This is a rather long topic which I have explained elsewhere…see [this paper](http://tedlab.mit.edu/~dr/Papers/Rohde-MRCA-two.pdf) if you are interested. Some relevant quotes from the Rohde paper: _“After many generations, the proportion of genes contributed by each ancestor becomes vanishingly small, until some ancestors may contribute no actual genes…” (p 24)" “The African sim has almost entirely African ancestry, with 0.00092% Eurasian ancestry, primarily from the border countries.” (p 27)_ For clarification, it sounds like what the OP is asking is how many African Americans have genes derived only from pre L3 M/N-split populations (using mitochondrial lineages). Quite a bit of research has been done around this; it’s impossible to say for any given individual because of the difficult of measuring every single gene. In general, the Self Identified Race/Ethnic group of “black” in the United States has an average of about 20% European gene admixture. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/14 "2013-06-28T19:19:56Z")
I should add that genes do cluster by SIRE groups, but to insist any particular gene is “pure African” or “pure European” is not a very satisfying way to put it. I think it’s better to say that a given gene seems to have arisen after a particular given lineage split (using either mtDNA or Y-chromosome population/migration groupings) and that said gene is therefore represented predominately in the descendants of that population…for example, you would expect to find MCPH1 haplogroup D in “Europeans” commonly, but not in “Africans” because it didn’t show up until post-Africa populations. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/15 "2013-06-29T00:09:23Z")
[Afro-European Genetic Admixture in the United States](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/5) [How Much of the European Contribution to the African-American Genome Comes From Females?](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/577) [The Rate of Black-to-White “Passing”](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/8) [Can DNA Tell What “Race” You Are?](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/44) [The Heredity of “Racial” Traits](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/11) [The Rate of Black-to-White “Passing”](http://essays.backintyme.com/item/8) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/16 "2013-06-29T01:43:29Z")
This is not intended as snark or sarcasm, but the question occurred to me of how many “white” Americans with non-immigrant ancestry are descendants of only Europeans? I’d imagine very few. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/17 "2013-06-29T02:49:03Z")
> [@grude](#): > > This is not intended as snark or sarcasm, but the question occurred to me of how many “white” Americans with non-immigrant ancestry are descendants of only Europeans? I’d imagine very few. What do you mean by “non-immigrant ancestry”? All whites in the US have immigrant ancestry, of course. In any case, from [here](http://www.isteve.com/2002_how_white_are_blacks.htm) > [@](#): > > Among self-identified whites in Shriver’s sample, the average black admixture is only 0.7 percent. That’s the equivalent of having among your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (who lived around two centuries ago), 127 whites and one black. > > It appears that 70 percent of whites have no African ancestors. Among the 30 percent who do, the black admixture is around 2.3 percent, which would be like having about three black ancestors out of those 128. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-african-americans-are-descendants-of-only-all-africans-impossible-to-ascertain/662117/18 "2013-06-29T03:54:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What do you mean by “non-immigrant ancestry”? All whites in the US have immigrant ancestry, of course. There should have been a \ in front of that phrase obviously 😛 And I wondering about native American as well, but neat link.