# How many atheists/non-Christians would be offended by this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996 "2003-08-22T19:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/21 "2003-08-22T21:51:54Z")
I’m an atheist, and wouldn’t be offended by it. I could see it making people of other faiths uncomfortable, though. I would expect much less of a problem if you just had a bible on your shelves and bible passages on your wall. Like the orthodox Jew wearing a yamulka, that’s you expressing your own faith, and I think that’s a good thing. However, asking patients to read religious passages, even relatively innocuous ones, could be misinterpreted as an attempt to try to get them to participate in your faith, which could make people of other religions uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Eirik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b19c9b/32.png) [@Eirik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eirik)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/22 "2003-08-22T21:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shemem \* > \*\* > Also, as a Bast worshipper, I would probably also make some joke about seeing if I could get you some really tiny hieroglyphs, just for variety. 😉 \*\* Acutally, something small and complex like that might not be bad. I’ve got a lot of Boeing engineers that I examine. 🙂 One of these days, I intend to get out to the Boeing tour center gift shop and get some kind of engineering diagram of one of the planes if I can. I see at least one engineer a day, it would be nice to let them try their glasses on stuff they _see_ everyday. Not to hijack my own thread, but does anyone have a good website address with complex engineering diagrams they can point me at? Real or fictional as long as they look real. I occationally use a computer for real world testing, and I’d like something more complex than [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). ---
**Author:** ![transitionality](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@transitionality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transitionality)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/23 "2003-08-22T21:53:50Z")
It’s objectionable, because: 1. Some people just don’t want to read the Bible or have anything to do with it. They have either been bludgeoned with it for years, as children, and are now distasteful of it, or just think of it as a piece of bad, self-inconsistent fiction that causes much harm in the world, or some similar reason. 2. A lot of people know key passages of the Bible by heart. This _will_ skew test results. It is not good medicine, or good science, to knowingly conduct experiments when you know that the results will be skewed a lot of the time. 3. The language is not natural. It is archaic and not a good example of everyday reading for a decent percentage of people. 4. Good business sense compels the reasonable businessperson to act in ways that please the most customers and offend the fewest. Word-of-mouth is a very real phenomenon, especially in this day and age of instantaneous, practically free communication through a number of channels. You should not risk offending even a single patient. Just use the set without the Bible card (hide the Bible card in your drawer) or if that’s not workable, look for an alternative set. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/24 "2003-08-22T22:21:32Z")
I’m an atheist, and I might raise an eyebrow at it, but I take these kinds of things for granted and I would not be offended or take my business elsewhere. Of course, I’m the kind of atheist who is not avoidant towards religion. I’ve attended religious services, find religion an interesting subject, and have read the Bible a few times. As is obvious in this thread, there are a few more anti-religion atheists out there who you would probably alienate. I think it would be more likely to alienate people of different religions, though. I imagine some religious sects frown upon reading other faiths holy books, and I know there are quite a few Christians who find versions of the Bible other than the King James blasphemous. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/25 "2003-08-22T22:30:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eirik \* > \*\*I will say that I find it a bit strange that at least a few self-described athiets seem as closed minded about something that (to me) is pretty petty. \*\* I’m an atheist and I totally agree with you. But then again I’m not from a place where atheists feel like they have to defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/26 "2003-08-22T22:30:50Z")
As a devout humanist, I wouldn’t be at all offended. The Bible is great literature. The fact that it means more than that to some people, doesn’t diminish its literary value for me. But if all four examples were religious in nature, I might conclude that you were proselytizing. ---
**Author:** ![lilbtagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@lilbtagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilbtagna)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/27 "2003-08-22T23:04:59Z")
I’m Buddhist and I wouldn’t be offended at all by the card, especially if you pointed out that it was just a common size print people encounter in their daily lives. I live in Oklahoma though, where just about everything I see has references to the Bible or to God. I’ve probably grown accustomed to seeing religious passages everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/28 "2003-08-22T23:05:48Z")
People who are uncomfortable, what 4 pieces of random text would you use? If all optometrists did it, or you had a load of religious paraphenelia, I’d might be tired of it. But the text has to say _something_! Would you be offended if it was from the koran or the vedas? Or from an obscure cult? Or was an essay advocating some non-religious philosophical system? Or a newspaper article you disagree with? If it does annoy people (presumably because they see too many bibles) then it might be prudent to replace it if possible. But anything you write’ll disagree with _someone._ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/29 "2003-08-22T23:14:12Z")
I’m an atheist and I wouldn’t think twice about it. If you insisted I read it, and then said, “So what do you think about that?” while slowly locking the door, I’d think twice. 😉 I don’t presume to speak for all atheists, though. Just as there are wild-eyed fruitcake Christians lying in front of the door of the Alabama courthouse to prevent the removal of that Ten Commandments boulder, there are wild-eyed fruitcake atheists who will take _any_ presentation of religious material the wrong way and stomp angrily toward the exit. Neither represents the majority, but they’re the ones who make the fuss, so they cause trouble out of proportion to their representation in society. The point about how a lot of people will have memorized the passage, though, is an excellent one. Maybe you could replace it with the verses where Lot’s daughters get him drunk and have sex with him. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eirik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b19c9b/32.png) [@Eirik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eirik)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/30 "2003-08-22T23:16:09Z")
I think there might be some misconception about what is on this card. The total size of this is about 12cm by 14cm. The upper left hand corner, about a 4x5cm section, have the first three chapters of Genisis. Next to it and about 5x5 is a section of a phone book white page, Starting with “Timm Robt W.” and ending about 20 names down with “Timmel Ned & Janet”. Below this are two newspaper columns about a baseball game between the Janesville Flames and the Milwaukee Stars. It’s 4.5 cm tall and takes the full width of the card. Below that in the remaining space are the musical notes. I can’t read music so I don’t know if it’s supposed to be something well known, but a few people I’ve asked don’t reconize it. That’s it. The rest of this card can’t be remotely viewed as religious, unless you consider the reference to a sacrafice bunt in the baseball story to be a problem. The card, BTW, is no longer in my exam room, it’s sitting in my office. I am myself not a religous man at all. I beleive in God, but view the Bible only as great literature. But I’m in the business of looking at eyes, not offending or converting. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/31 "2003-08-22T23:20:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > **People who are uncomfortable, what 4 pieces of random text would you use?** Anything. Grab a John Grisham book, open it up, and point to a page. Use an article from Good Housekeeping. If you want archaic-sounding English, grab some Shakespeare. Can’t you see how these things would be less offensive to a certain number of patients than a bible verse? Now, I’m sure there’s somebody somewhere who is violently opposed to legal thriller novels or tips on dusting furniture, but I think they’re far outnumbered by sensitive non-Christians. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/32 "2003-08-22T23:29:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eirik \* > …\*\*BTW, that makes me wonder about the poor doctor who works near me. He’s an Orthodox Jew who wears a Yamulka to work. Doubt that you’d meet a nicer man, but he’s wearing a religious symbol… \*\* If his beliefs require him to cover a portion of the top of his head, I have no problem with his doing so. If I have to read selections from the Torah in order to receive treatment, I’ll probably go elsewhere. There’s a difference between practicing your religion and requiring others to do so. I’m sorry that to some people here that may seem “petty”, “closed-minded”, or “paranoid” or even make me a “fruitcake”, but I get proselytized to often and don’t feel I should have to pay for the privilege. As for being “antireligious”, I too have attended services, studied religious subjects, and read the Bible, but I don’t like being compelled to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/33 "2003-08-22T23:32:04Z")
For some reason I’ve enjoyed this thread lots. Although I am a Christian, I wouldn’t use the passage in that context, unless I were specifically trying to target a Christian market. Here are a couple other examples I thought of: Classified advertisements from a newspaper are a good example of small print you encounter in everyday life. Another example might be the nutrition information on food labels. The manual that comes with a cell phone. A bus/ subway schedule. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/34 "2003-08-22T23:32:44Z")
I wouldn’t be offended, but if I were your patient, I’d think you might have an agenda. Even though as stated in this thread you sound as if you don’t. But being asked to read the Bible as part of an eye exam is… (I can’t think of a word). I’ve worn glasses or contacts all my life, and throughout my childhood I saw an outstanding and deeply religious optometrist. He went to church every morning before going into the office. He never discussed his beliefs, but if I had to read passages from the Bible as a kid, I would have been uncomfortable. My father is an atheist, and my mother is a combo of “new age, what ever makes you feel good.” I not sure what there reaction would have been if I told them i was reading from the Bible at the Drs. office. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/35 "2003-08-22T23:37:28Z")
The (laminated) card they use at my eye doctors’ has a sentence or two in each of about ten or 12 different sizes. Each sniippet is on a completely different subject, all quite innocuous (fairy tale, bit of history, I don’t even remember what). They hand me the card and say “which is the smallest sample you can read?” and I’ll skim down and read what appears at first glance to be the smallest, then try the one smaller, then try the one smaller. In each case I read off the first 6 or 8 words of the sentence (that’s why I can’t remember what they are, I’ve never finished one). They’re all the same font (typeface) and differ only in point size. I’d look for something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/36 "2003-08-22T23:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\*Anything. Grab a John Grisham book, open it up, and point to a page. Use an article from Good Housekeeping. If you want archaic-sounding English, grab some Shakespeare. > > Can’t you see how these things would be less offensive to a certain number of patients than a bible verse? Now, I’m sure there’s somebody somewhere who is violently opposed to legal thriller novels or tips on dusting furniture, but I think they’re far outnumbered by sensitive non-Christians. \*\* OK, yeah, I get why people would be upset. I think it’s me who’s odd and wouldn’t really be offended whatver it said. I just imagine myself being told ‘get some text, any text,’ picking the nearest 4 books, finding one is a bible and, whoops… ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/37 "2003-08-23T00:17:56Z")
The last time I got my eyes checked, the doc had a card which had a paragraph of some innocuous text in several different sizes, each one smaller. (I THINK it was all the same text, but I could be wrong.) He asked me to pick the smallest one I could read, I pointed at it, and read. The Bible thing might weird me out a bit, but with the explanation of “this is a common text size,” it wouldn’t really bother me. Still, it seems like a giant can of worms. I like the atlas idea. My mom and her hubby, both around 50, have the HARDEST time with maps. I find it amusing, though in another 25 years maybe that will change. But they are difficult for some people to read, but are also very common. They bought a local one that has extra-big text and it bugs the heck out of me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eirik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b19c9b/32.png) [@Eirik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eirik)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/38 "2003-08-23T00:26:40Z")
Whiterabbit: I’ve used the atlas primarily over the last three years because it was the only thing I had that with such small, crowded print. I usually pick a busy state, often Massachusetts (Washington, were I live, is just too wide open for much crowded print). I used to use New Jersey, but I made someone mad by handing it to them and saying, “Now I’m going to show you something hard to look at.” Turned out they were from NJ… ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/39 "2003-08-23T01:32:29Z")
Oops! Some of those little states have a LOT of small print. Could you take a few pages an atlas and laminate them? That’d at least slow down their decomposition. You’d have to sacrifice an atlas, but I strongly suspect that’d be chaper than some of the nifty little cards. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996/40 "2003-08-23T01:40:09Z")
Um, you know that Genesis is a _Jewish_ text, right? I doubt any Jews are going to be offended by it. OTOH, I don’t know why on earth you’d pick that text out of anything. Why not something that you wouldn’t have to worry about offending someone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-atheists-non-christians-would-be-offended-by-this/196996.md?page=3)