# How many black americans REALLY celebrate Kwanza? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 25, 2002, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822 "2002-12-25T05:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chuckster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@chuckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chuckster)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/1 "2002-12-25T05:43:07Z")
IMHO Kwanza is the first example of a POLITICAL holiday in our society, rather than a RELIGIOUS holiday. The entertainment and media communities have given a lot of attention to Kwanza in the past couple of years. The question is, are African Americans as a whole recognizing the holiday or is it just a way for white liberals to feel good about themselves by proving they are more sensitive than anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Grit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@Grit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grit)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/2 "2002-12-25T06:11:33Z")
So Independence Day is not a political holiday. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/3 "2002-12-25T06:18:03Z")
I’ll answer your question if you’ll answer mine. Are you genuinely intersted in the subject, or are you so out of things to whine about that you spend your spare time reitterating arguments that even WorldNetDaily commentators no longer think of as clever? ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/4 "2002-12-25T08:54:10Z")
Actually, I was wondering this as well. It seems to be portrayed as an african-american christmas celebration but, as we all know, portraying ANYTHING as a RACE ANYTHING is usually patently off. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/5 "2002-12-25T13:06:57Z")
Well, take the politics out of the OP and you can chalk me up as another interested in the answer to this. About the only place I see it mentioned is in comic strips with black characters, and in the holiday greetings that attempt to be all-inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/6 "2002-12-25T15:56:49Z")
Gee, this sounds like a legit question to me – one I’m curious about myself. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/7 "2002-12-25T16:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems to be portrayed as an african-american christmas celebration I’ve often wondered, myself, what makes Kwanzaa an African-American celebration, when the values that it celebrates seem to be non-ethnic in nature. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/8 "2002-12-25T16:30:53Z")
Well, I’m white, but I’d celebrate Kwanzaa if I could get action like Kwanzaa Timmy does. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/9 "2002-12-25T16:46:27Z")
_Originally posted by norinew_ > [@](#): > > **the values that it celebrates seem to be non-ethnic in nature.** The values are non-ethnic in nature but portrayed in decidedly ethnic terms, in Kiswahili - a language that I’d go out on a limb to suggest that the vast, vast majority of African-Americans cannot identify or place geographically or ethnically. I’m a part of a very large African-American church, several African-American professional societies and remain in close ties with several dozen sisters from my sorority, the largest and oldest African-American sorority in the U.S. No one I know celebrates kwanzaa, not in that circle, not in my family or amongst my friends. No one cares about it, no one is convinced of its necessity or place in modern black society. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that most people I’ve talked to agree with me – it’s just the hoary leftovers of an unwelcomed pseudo-intellectual circle that never had any real power in the civil rights movement because it served no purpose. We choose to celebrate holidays with roots going deeper than 1966. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/10 "2002-12-25T17:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > is it just a way for white liberals to feel good about themselves by proving they are more sensitive than anybody else? I’d say you hit the nail on the head, just shows how racist these people really are. “Hey poor holidayless black person, we will grant you your own holiday so you can feel good just like us white folks. - arn’t we good, now continue to vote for us and we might give you more” ---
**Author:** ![ceyjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@ceyjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ceyjen)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/11 "2002-12-25T18:39:30Z")
tlw-- hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/12 "2002-12-25T18:44:52Z")
What is the proper Kwanzaa salutation? “Happy Kwanzaa”? “Merry Kwanzaa”? Or is it some kind of a unspoken thing like a hand sign? ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/13 "2002-12-25T19:12:57Z")
I choose to celebrate the precious gift of my family. Some folks may call it Xmas, Kwanzaa, Hannukah, Ramadan, . . . That’s fine. I really don’t know or care what other folks call it just so long as they have a good time. I just look at this time as one that I enjoy spending with my family and stuffing my face with mom’s homecooking. 😃 Y’all have a wonderful holiday season. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/14 "2002-12-25T20:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chuckster \* > \*\*IMHO Kwanza is the first example of a POLITICAL holiday in our society, rather than a RELIGIOUS holiday. \*\* Of the ten Federal holidays in the U.S., which ones do you classify as religious? New Year’s Day Martin Luther King, Jr. Day President’s Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Columbus Day Veteran’s Day Thanksgiving Christmas Christmas is religious, and a case can be made that Thanksgiving was originally a religious holiday for thanking God. But the others are not religious holidays. As for Kwanzaa, it is a very new holiday, and no specific records are kept of the numbers who celebrate it. I’ve seen figures ranging from 18 million to 28 million people worldwide. The media doesn’t give Kwanzaa any more attention than it gives to other relatively recent secular holidays such as Father’s Day and Secretary’s Day. I don’t see how the existence of the holiday makes white people feel better about themselves. It’s not a holiday for whites to celebrate their liberalism, it’s a holiday for people of African heritage to celebrate that heritage if they choose to do so. Kwanzaa is definitely NOT an African-American Christmas. It intentionally begins the day AFTER Christmas, and is celebrated in addition to Christmas or any other December religious holidays. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/15 "2002-12-26T02:26:13Z")
I think maybe a very small number of people fully celebrate it by going all out, and many other people acknowledge it but don’t center their holiday season on it…from what I have seen. Anyway, I think its a great idea, and I am not black. The holidays have become so materialistic that if people want to place something deeper and more profound in this season, good for them. And maybe it is a little ethnically particular, but I have yet to hear of white people being booed during a Kwaanza event or asked to leave and go to the mall instead. I think the root of the issue is that some people are a little dismissive and patronizing to black Americans’ attempts to connect to African culture. Yet people of other ethnic backgrounds do all sorts of things to emphasize some semi-fictive ethnic identity. ---
**Author:** ![Deadly\_Nightlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/16 "2002-12-26T04:16:43Z")
I know a family of white people that celebrate Kwanza… ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/17 "2002-12-26T05:49:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by japatlgt \* > \*\*What is the proper Kwanzaa salutation? “Happy Kwanzaa”? “Merry Kwanzaa”? Or is it some kind of a unspoken thing like a hand sign? \*\* The December Holiday greetings go like this: Have a Happy Hannuka, Merry Christmas, and a \* Kwazy \* Kqanzaa!! ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/18 "2002-12-26T06:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by k2dave \* > \*\*I’d say you hit the nail on the head, just shows how racist these people really are. “Hey poor holidayless black person, we will grant you your own holiday so you can feel good just like us white folks. - arn’t we good, now continue to vote for us and we might give you more” \*\* Er…so you’re saying that Kwaanza was invented by white people? I’d like to see you prove that. The only thing worse than sensetive white liberals are reactions like this by knee-jerk, “anti-PC” vigilantes. FTR, Kwaanza always struck me more as a cultural holiday than a political one. Although I suppose the case could be made that the two things go hand in hand. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/19 "2002-12-26T07:28:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > \*\*The December Holiday greetings go like this: Have a Happy Hannuka, Merry Christmas, and a \* Kwazy \* Kqanzaa!! \*\* Don’t forget a tip-top Tet and a solemn, dignified Ramadan. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822/20 "2002-12-26T08:25:21Z")
Okay, I’ll answer then =) I know a few people that celebrate Kwanzaa. Mostly (but not always) it is upper-middle class (largely college educated) black families with kids. They want to do a little something extra to bring their family together and acknowledge their heritage at the same time. Kind of like a non-religious Jewish family celebrating the modern version of Hannakuh. Most Kwanzaa celebrators don’t really connect it to Africa as much as they do to the African-American experience- much like we don’t connect Christmas trees to Germany, but to the European-American experience. Really celebrating it is no wierder than wearing a white wedding dress (dates from Queen Victoria), celebrating mother’s day (created essentially by one woman wantig to memoralize her dead mom), watching football on Thanksgiving, or any number of traditions that people do that is of fairly recent origin. Most of the modern christmas complete with malls and green-bean cassrole and mechanical raindeer on the front lawn isn’t exactly ancient tradition that ties into our personal roots. Heck, at least Kwanzaa has purer motives than the blatant commercialization that Christmas has become. So while Kwanzaa is a little artificial, and isn’t really all that widely celebrated, it isn’t an evil plot by PC radicals either. It’s just something someone thought would be a neat idea, that caught on in a smallish way. Probably the main reason it gets acknowledged in holiday displays is that it breaks the monotany of red and green and blue and silver. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-americans-really-celebrate-kwanza/144822.md?page=2)