# How Many Black NFL Coaches Will Be Sufficient? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370 "2005-01-18T14:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/21 "2005-01-18T19:31:57Z")
Another example of a coach not having playing experience is the new Notre Dame coach & current NE Patriots Offensive Coordinator Charlie Weis. He is an alum of Notre Dame but did not play football as a student. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/22 "2005-01-18T19:44:53Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > This only pushes the argument back a step. Where are the college coaches coming from? if the issues are the same, then they need to be resolved as well. First off, just putting the data out there. Second, I don’t know if the racial make up of the NFL reflects the racial make up of college football, in general (I doubt it) or more specifically Division 1-A football. Several of the coaches played at schools that would at least be “non BCS” schools. It would be interesting to do a random sampling of college level players to see if there is equal interest, at that level, on a coaching versus playing path. Maybe more non-black players already see their future as coaches, not players, when they enter college. Or early in. Maybe not. If that _is_ true you could still make the argument that there were, once upon a time, no role models. And even now not so much. Outside of traditional black colleges there is a very poor level of participation of minorities in college coaching, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/23 "2005-01-18T23:12:21Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > I’m not sure what the spur for the OP is, but I guess I’ll weigh in. Bear in mind that I don’t really follow sports, so my post will probably have more questions than answers. **astorian** might be thinking about when the Lions knew they wanted to hire Steve Mariucci but still had to interview a token black coach as a potential hire. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/24 "2005-01-18T23:53:51Z")
Coaching is an extremely subjective skill, not amenable to quantification. It’s similar to music, where women’s participation in symphony orchestras increased five-fold during the 70’s and 80’s after auditions began to be held with the musician screened from the judges. Some of the increase was due to the increased pool of female job seekers, but a full third of the increase was because of the removal of gender bias.[Cite](http://kuznets.fas.harvard.edu/~goldin/papers/orchestra.pdf) The problem is, how do you judge a coach without watching him? The current NFL system is biased both because the owners know who they’re hiring, and because the college coaches, from which the NFL caches are drawn, are overwhelmingly white. I don’t think there is any specific number that will be enough. It was once considered unthinkable for a black player to be quarterback on an NFL team. Take a look around now. When the best person for the job has the job, that’ll be enough. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/25 "2005-01-19T00:35:12Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is, how do you judge a coach without watching him? By his win-loss record. That’s all a club owner cares about, really. You judge a coordinator by the stats his unit puts out, and how they’ve improved since he took the job. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/26 "2005-01-19T02:33:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > By his win-loss record. That’s all a club owner cares about, really. You judge a coordinator by the stats his unit puts out, and how they’ve improved since he took the job. Oh sure, in the long run. In the short run the new coach has to deal with the organization he inherited. He’s had no input into the drafts, or who was picked up as free agents. He is usually allowed to fire some of the assistant coaches and hire people who he thinks will fit into his strategy, but it can take several years for any of this to show on the win-loss record. It’s funny that lots of people say that “with the talent that X team has anyone could coach them to a superbowl”, Jerry Jones, is that you? without considering how that talent was acquired and nurtured. Win-loss means a lot, but most coaches aren’t given 3-4 years to turn a team around. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/27 "2005-01-19T03:05:36Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Has any former player ever coached a Super Bowl winning team? Right off the top of my head, Mike Ditka comes to mind. Of course, look at where I am from. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/28 "2005-01-19T03:40:11Z")
\ If any white guy spots open in the NFL, I want to throw George O’Leary’s name into the ring. He’s got a great resume–former head coach at Notre Dame and lettered in football for three years without being on the team…😃 \ ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370/29 "2005-01-19T05:18:19Z")
Take him – I’m a UCF fan … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-black-nfl-coaches-will-be-sufficient/285370.md?page=1)