As to #4 I thought bullets that went all the way through the target are not desirable (assuming your goal is to kill what you are shooting at). The idea is that a hole through a body is not as damaging as a bullet staying inside the body and bouncing around pinball fashion causing all sorts fo destruction. For this reason I thought the use of armor piercing ammo (to defeat a kevlar vest) was only a good choice if you know your target is wearing body armor. Otherise you’re better off with a more typical bullet that deforms and tumbles on impact.
I certainly could be wrong though…I’m no expert in these matters but from previous discussions here at the SDMB this is what I was led to believe (or remember wrongly depending on the truth of the matter).
Yup. And just to draw the full picture twice the mass will double the whoopass factor. Hence, other considerations aside, you get more bang for your buck from faster than you do from bigger. (Although as you might expect there can be reasons to want bigger and not faster…there’s a reason there are so many different types of guns so you can apply the right tool the right situation you expect to face.)
An old acquaintance of mine was recently (last year) cruising the internet for cybersex when he made a friend. After a couple of hours of chat and an exchange of photographs, she invited him over to her house for a spot of the old in and out. Or at least that’s what he thought. He apparently also thought she was of age. So my acquaintance, being horney and under the influence of more than one intoxicating substance, jumps into his car at 2 AM and drives a half hour to her house. IMHO, my acquaintence was using very bad judgement.
After he gets to the house, the story gets a little fuzzy. Suffice it to say that the man of the house took offense to my acquaintence’s attempt to gain entry at 3 AM and opened fire. My acqaintence took eight 9mm bullets–most of them in the back. And he survived. You may scoff a this. I did. When I heard the story, I called bullshit. But it was true. I have spoken to the acquaintence in person and seen the scars. I put my hand in the wound like St. Thomas. Well, not really in the wound. I was using metaphor. But it’s true–a guy I used to get fucked up with got shot 8 times and survived. Most of the bullets hit him in the gut and just went straight through. As he eloquently put it “I’m missing most of my optional equipment,” (including several feet(!) of intestine) but he was back at work a few months later. No word on if he still cruises for cyber…
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Neither do hits from .223 rounds kill almost instantly, and the only time an arm or leg wound would be fatal is from blood loss, not from a deadly shock wave travelling through the body. **
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This has not been my experience. In 'Nam I learned that a person shot by a .223 round in the mid-upper thigh can die instantly. Also when hit in the neck. Many times a hit anywhere in the chest will cause effectively instant death. Granted, close range helps.
No question about that. If it’s too good to be true it usually is and this one goes WAY past too good to be true.
I know it’s OT but now I am curious. Define the ‘attempt to gain entry’ better. Ring the doorbell? Climbing through a window? Kiccking down the door?
What happened immediatley after he was shot? I assume he didn’t go very far after that on his own. Did the shooter call an ambulance or cops? What happened to the shooter. Sounds like a sure way for him to end up in prison. You can defend your house but usually it is ‘justifiable’ force and 8 shots (sounds like he unloaded the gun and was a good shot) seems excessive.
good questions Wack. I was wondering if the guy was found getting it on with a minor - or attempting
I wouls be pissed if somebody unknown was banging on my door at 3 am, but I would not open fire for just that alone - maybe some interesting points in the fuzzy part.
Wow! I wonder why it works so differently on humans than other animals, like deer. In many states it is illegal to hunt deer with .223, because the round tends to have a higher risk of wounding (no magical instant kill) than larger calibers like 30-06 or .308.
Little Ourkie I’m guessing was thinking of a shot to the femoral artery in your upper leg. Nail that and that person has some BIG problems. Not instant death but it’s death is now pretty close and without immediate medical attention that person is likely a goner. People mention bleeding out…this would be more like gushing out.
Of course, just about any gun could poke a hole in that artery so I don’t think there is any magic to a .223 especially (unless you get the tumbling thing going on so a shot to the leg that doesn’t directly see the artery punctured might see the bullet bounce around a bit for a few extra chances at the artery…I have no clue myself but hopefully someone else will).
I agree about bleeding out, which was what my original comment was. Ourkie’s post seems to indicate that he is referring to the shockwave of death, rather than run of the mill gunshot trauma.
In Maryland - an non gun/hunt friendly state - we can use .223, any expanding construction bullet that can develop at least 1,200 #'s of energy - just makes it!
I have done it - one shot/kill. The placement is the key.
sigh Yes, shot placement counts for quite a bit, and I’m aware that it can be used for hunting by a skilled shooter. I didn’t want to get into the details of .223 performance aside from the hydrostatic shock hype.
My brother, 23, was shot on January 7th, 2012 by police officers 12 times. Two in the back. Two on his side, one in the ankle going threw and piercing the foot. One in the finger, causing it to just hang until they cut it the rest of the way off. One in on his butt cheek. Two in his arm and once on his thigh. One in his stomach and one in the back of the head. Life lined. Ton of brain swelling and his intestines were out of him and I imagine a ton of blood. He was in a coma, induced. Stroke. Blind. More Brain Pressure. Month later, brain pressure is fine, he is seeing a little off but do-able. Another month later he’s in physical therapy, pistol as every. By March 15th, 2012 he is at home, walking without any help, carrying his 19 month baby around. Its unbelievable just how many bullets a person can survive.
Some may not be aware that “deer” covers a fairly broad range of critters. A mule deer might weigh 3-4X what the whitetails you find in Maryland would. There is no doubt that a well placed shot from a .223 would also drop a mule deer, but a wise and humane hunter wants more margin for error to ensure against a wounded animal escaping.
As for why .223 is enough for our army, but maybe not enough for hunting: The goal of a hunter is a clean quick kill. The goal of a soldier is to take the enemy out of the fight. If he is also screaming in agony demoralizing his comrades, and taxing medical infrastructure to care for his wounds, so much the better. Most states require the use of soft or hollow pointed expanding bullets for hunting, but these are expressly forbidden by the Geneva conventions due to their more destructive wounds. A full-metal-jacket round accomplishes the military goal.
deer are fast, the issue is with deer getting away with a slow kill wound and suffering before dying. animals don’t have the psychological reaction of stopping when shot, they don’t know what just went on and will probably run for it if they can. you may only have one shot before it bolts.
