# How many civilians did Iraqi Freedom kill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825 "2003-04-24T12:10:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/1 "2003-04-24T12:10:57Z")
What is the latest tally for the number of civilian deaths attributable to the military action? I am aware that the existing sanctions might _anyway_ have caused more such deaths than comparable countries in over a comparable timescale, and also that the regime itself might in some cases have specifically targetted civilians. (I am also aware that even though I seek a factual answer this might become a right old ding dong. Mods, feel free if GD beckons) ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/2 "2003-04-24T12:32:29Z")
[http://www.iraqbodycount.net/](http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/3 "2003-04-24T12:57:20Z")
This is a question that defies rigor. The link above, for example, counts casualties from an “inter-ethnic fight” in Masul. These are presumably deaths caused by Iraqis to Iraqis. Are they counted? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/4 "2003-04-24T13:35:14Z")
Kill one person it’s a tragedy, kill a million it’s a statistic. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/5 "2003-04-24T13:43:37Z")
Many thanks **ratatosk** , and good point **Bricker**. Might I suggest that we _do_ count casualties due to lawlessness and inter-ethnic strife since, whatever the evils of Saddam’s regime, these would simply _not have occurred_ but for the invasion. Of course, we must also _subtract_ the number killed in an average month by the regime itself or the sanctions brought about by the regime’s actions over and above other comparable countries’ non-military deaths in one month since these _would_ have continued without the invasion. ---
**Author:** ![booka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@booka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booka)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/6 "2003-04-24T14:21:05Z")
I wonder how the distinction is made in some cases between civilians, and military dressed as civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/7 "2003-04-24T14:35:34Z")
I think it’s a good question, but it misses an important dimension, namely, the Iraqi military. First of all, the majority of them were conscripts and at this point there’s quite a lot of evidence to show that at least in some geographic areas, they were extorted into fighting by fear for themselves or their families. But even beyond that, the question as to whether this war was just has to take into account the number of persons on all sides who lost their lives, regardless of their motivation. There are not good statistics on the total number of Iraqi military we killed; it is certainly several thousand. Some estimates go as high as ten thousand, but I think these are probably inflated. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-civilians-did-iraqi-freedom-kill/170825/8 "2003-04-24T14:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > \*\* > Of course, we must also _subtract_ the number killed in an average month by the regime itself or the sanctions brought about by the regime’s actions over and above other comparable countries’ non-military deaths in one month since these _would_ have continued without the invasion. \*\* the number 200,000 disappeared people under Saddam’s 23 year regime keeps coming up. That equals about 725 a month. Sanctions have killed between 500,000-1,700,000. So that comes to about 3500-11,400 a month.