# How many classical composers were there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559 "2005-04-09T14:10:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/1 "2005-04-09T14:10:10Z")
There are probably about a dozen classical composers who the average person would recognize (by name if not by their work) today. However, I was thinking that there are probably, on any given night, two dozen bands playing in Chicago that I’ve heard of and know something about. I doubt any of them will be around in 2-300 years like Beethoven, Mozart, et. al., but there certainly is a variety of what would be considered “good” bands. My question is, in 18th (or 19th or whenever) century Vienna (or Prague or wherever these guys tended to congregate), how many composers were working and performing at any given time? I assume that when an orchestra performed, they played for significant runs (like a play, not just a one-off like you’d see a band these days) and that there was significant preparation time, rehersal, etc. I also wonder if there were significantly fewer venues to hear the music (what with needing to a) fit a large enough of an audience to make it profittable b) seat all the musicians, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/2 "2005-04-09T15:24:38Z")
> [@Chairman Pow](#): > > There are probably about a dozen classical composers who the average person would recognize (by name if not by their work) today. However, I was thinking that there are probably, on any given night, two dozen bands playing in Chicago that I’ve heard of and know something about. > > I doubt any of them will be around in 2-300 years like Beethoven, Mozart, et. al., but there certainly is a variety of what would be considered “good” bands. > > My question is, in 18th (or 19th or whenever) century Vienna (or Prague or wherever these guys tended to congregate), how many composers were working and performing at any given time? > > I assume that when an orchestra performed, they played for significant runs (like a play, not just a one-off like you’d see a band these days) and that there was significant preparation time, rehersal, etc. I also wonder if there were significantly fewer venues to hear the music (what with needing to a) fit a large enough of an audience to make it profittable b) seat all the musicians, etc.) You need to remember that before Beethoven (early 19th century), most composers did not make a living composing works for the public. They were all members of some aristocratic court or other, adding to the sophistication of same by their efforts (thus increasing their patron’s prestige in the eyes of other aristocrats), the same way that availability of pepper in the evening’s dinner did. They were part of the trappings of any well-appointed court, so if you round up a reliable figure of how many courts there were at any time with the sort of resources necessary to support a composer (maybe more than one for super-wealthy courts) and the musicians, you probably have a pretty good figure on how many were employed at the time. Once you get into the 19th Century, and popular concerts, it’s not so very different that the popular scene today. If you could scrape together the resources to get your music performed, you charged what you could reasonably get. There were superstar composers, and for every one, you probably had at least ten that didn’t rise above the background noise. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/3 "2005-04-09T17:13:43Z")
I have a book, _The Essential Canon of Classical Music_, that probably lists about 60-70 composers as its short list before the modern era. If that many made the short list, imagine how many were forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/4 "2005-04-09T17:27:00Z")
Moved to CS. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/5 "2005-04-09T17:32:39Z")
A rough guess would say that there are about 100 “classical” composers that are extremely well-known today, and another 200-300 that are lesser known, but still get recorded or played regularly. Beyond that, there are many (500+?) more obscure that have been recorded or played, but are not well known at all. Now, go back to any era, let’s say 1791 (Mozart’s death) and you will find that the composers we now know from that era comprise only the tip of the iceberg. There will be dozens of artists and composers that, at the time were VERY popular, and have been completely forgotten over the years. I agree that you can parallel that to today’s situation, were there are: - regional bands - one hit wonders - flashes in the pan - etc … all these are pretty much forgotten 10 years after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/6 "2005-04-09T17:47:36Z")
**Scotandrsn** summarises the situation regarding concerts and performances well. There are well-worn tales of chaotic first performances of Beethoven symphonies, due to the best players being used in other more popular concerts, inadequate rehearsal time, etc. There’s a longer tradition of public performance of opera, for which earlier composers such as Handel and Mozart were best known. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/7 "2005-04-09T19:09:43Z")
[The Classical Composers’ Database](http://www.classical-composers.org/cgi-bin/ccd.cgi) lists 2,525 composers. Naxos Records’ _The A to Z of Classical Music_ lists 718 “Great Composers and Their Greatest Works.” I don’t have my Deutche Gramofon directory handy, but I think it’s in about the same ballpark as Naxos. All of these listings are a little “inclusive” to give your question a meaningful answer. The Naxos book lists a lot of people who pre- and post-date the era in which Classical music is considered to have been composed and includes most major Baroque, Romantic, Modern, etc. composers (Any listing that includes both Hildegarde von Bingen and Scott Joplin has some fairly fuzzy parameters). I’ve asked myself this same question, and a hard number answer is hard to come by. How many are “remembered?” Shit, I dunno. How many do _you_ remember? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/8 "2005-04-09T19:42:06Z")
> [@K364](#): > > - one hit wonders Hmm… is there any well known classical music that could be considered a “one hit wonder”? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/9 "2005-04-09T19:49:43Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hmm… is there any well known classical music that could be considered a “one hit wonder”? The Bruch violin concerto is perhaps such a piece. Although his Scottish Rhapsody gets an occassional airing. (He actually wrote two other violin concertos, so the fact his Concerto No. 1 is known as _the_ concerto speaks volumes.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/10 "2005-04-09T20:02:13Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hmm… is there any well known classical music that could be considered a “one hit wonder”? Yes! There was a bit on NPR a couple years ago about a piece called “Over the Sea” by a Mexican composer. It’s hard to describe, but I know you’ve heard it in countless Popeye cartoons (The tune tends to connote trapeezes, drunkenness and seasickness), as well as at the end of Big Bad Voodoo Daddys’ “You and Me and the Bottle Makes Three” (Right before the guy says “Whaddya mean it’s closing time?”). This is among the most ubiquitous classical (well, orchestral) riffs known, and I can’t even remember the composer’s name! I’d say that qualifies as a classical one-hit wonder. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/11 "2005-04-09T20:07:13Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hmm… is there any well known classical music that could be considered a “one hit wonder”? Name another piece by Pachelbel, beside the famous canon. Go ahead, I dare you. (No using Google!) ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/12 "2005-04-10T07:40:06Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Yes! There was a bit on NPR a couple years ago about a piece called “Over the Sea” by a Mexican composer. The piece is _Over the Waves_ by Juventino Rosas. The original Spanish title is _Sobre las Olas_ . George Lewis, the New Orleans traditional jazz clarinetist, did a jazz version of _Over the Waves_. Pretty unusual choice of music for traditional jazz, especially considering that it’s in waltz time. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/13 "2005-04-10T14:51:48Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Name another piece by Pachelbel, beside the famous canon. Go ahead, I dare you. (No using Google!) Or anything by Carl Orff except **Carmina Burana** , specifically “O, Fortuna.” Or anything beyond Holst’s “Planets.” ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/14 "2005-04-10T19:29:00Z")
> [@Jeff Lichtman](#): > > The piece is _Over the Waves_ by Juventino Rosas. The original Spanish title is _Sobre las Olas_ . It’s probably best known as [The Loveliest Night of the Year](http://www.hurricanebrassband.nl/over_the_waves.htm). But I had no idea until now that it went back further than that. Another classical one-hit wonder: Paul Dukas, “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/15 "2005-04-10T19:51:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Or anything by Carl Orff except **Carmina Burana** , specifically “O, Fortuna.” Or anything beyond Holst’s “Planets.” Orff, yes. But certainly I’d take issue with Holst being a one-hit wonder. True, _Mars_ is a cliche - but does _Bolero_’s equivalant status relegate Ravel to the same catagory? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/16 "2005-04-10T20:14:54Z")
I think we’d have to concede Holst. Ravel isn’t a good comparison; even the most casual classical music listener is probably aware of _Daphnis & Chloé_, _Pavane pour une Infante Défunte_, _Tzigane_, maybe the left-hand piano concerto, the string quartet, and a handful of other works. Even Orff has _Catulli Carmina_ and _Gassenhauer_ (which I understand was used in a Volkswagen ad). But you’d have to be pretty seriously into the repertoire to know any of Holst’s works beyond _The Planets_. My nomination for one-hit wonder is Albinoni. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/17 "2005-04-10T20:23:07Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > I think we’d have to concede Holst. Ravel isn’t a good comparison; even the most casual classical music listener is probably aware of _Daphnis & Chloé_, _Pavane pour une Infante Défunte_, _Tzigane_, maybe the left-hand piano concerto, the string quartet, and a handful of other works. Even Orff has _Catulli Carmina_ and _Gassenhauer_ (which I understand was used in a Volkswagen ad). But you’d have to be pretty seriously into the repertoire to know any of Holst’s works beyond _The Planets_. My nomination for one-hit wonder is Albinoni. OK, fair enough, maybe Holst is known by that one piece. And for one movement alone, at that. I don’t like it, though… However…it’s more than a ‘casual’ classical listener that would know that much Ravel. I like to use my dad as a benchmark for such things, being a habitual Classic FM listener…he knows Bolero inside out, but would probably be puzzled by the string quartet. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/18 "2005-04-10T21:20:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Or anything by Carl Orff except **Carmina Burana** , specifically “O, Fortuna.” Or anything beyond Holst’s “Planets.” Second Suite in F. First Suite in E flat. Everyone who has played in a high school concert band has played at least one or both of those. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/19 "2005-04-10T21:37:45Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > Second Suite in F. > First Suite in E flat. > > Everyone who has played in a high school concert band has played at least one or both of those. Maybe you’re not aware of it, but “high school band” is, in itself, an Americanism. I’ve never seen or heard a high school band, let alone played in one. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559/20 "2005-04-11T01:28:56Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Maybe you’re not aware of it, but “high school band” is, in itself, an Americanism. I’ve never seen or heard a high school band, let alone played in one. Never knew that. I knew that high school field bands, or any field band for that matter, were an American thing, but I guess I just assumed that most Western countries had concert bands within the public schools. Hm. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-classical-composers-were-there/298559.md?page=2)