# How many countries completely prohibit civilian firearm ownership? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150 "2009-12-13T22:55:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/21 "2009-12-14T23:32:49Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The situation in Canada… > > To own a gun you would need and FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate)… > > \ Correction: nowadays you need a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL). FACs haven’t been around since the mid-1990s. From the [Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_and_Acquisition_Licence) on the PAL: > [@](#): > > PALs were introduced in Canada in 1995 as part of Bill C-68 as a replacement for the FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) system… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/22 "2009-12-15T01:08:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Pistols - almost always 9mm semi-autos - \*are \*what most civilians carry for self defense. It’s just that the licensing process is rather draconian: 4-month waiting period, full background checks, a stiff tax and mandatory range-time. Once you have a license, though, there aren’t any limitations regarding “concealed carry” or magazine limits - if you’re trusted with a gun, you’re trusted with a gun. > > Automatic weapons are something else. They’re usually not personal property, but rather weapons issued by a settlement’s Security Officer from the town armory. Oddly enough, Israelis tend to see pistols as somehow more dangerous, even “dodgier” than assault rifles or submachine guns. So given that Israeli citizens are armed to such a degree, does that have any effect pro or con on civil crime? Fewer assaults and robberies, or bolder criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/23 "2009-12-15T01:11:23Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So given that Israeli citizens are armed to such a degree, does that have any effect pro or con on civil crime? Fewer assaults and robberies, or bolder criminals? Can we try and keep this thread on topic, perhaps? Please? At least until a few more people have had a go at answering the original question? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/24 "2009-12-15T01:26:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Actually, in many countries the people most likely to have a gun would be “none of the above:” it would be hunters. Slight hijack: Am I right in believing that India is the only country that [prohibits firearm possession for the purpose of hunting](http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india/stats/)? AFAICT, subject to certain (stringent but widely flouted) restrictions, private citizens in India may own guns for target-shooting or protection of person or property, but **not** for hunting game for sport or food. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/25 "2009-12-15T01:33:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Slight hijack: Am I right in believing that India is the only country that [prohibits firearm possession for the purpose of hunting](http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india/stats/)? > > AFAICT, subject to certain (stringent but widely flouted) restrictions, private citizens in India may own guns for target-shooting or protection of person or property, but **not** for hunting game for sport or food. And interestingly, the only two centrefire guns legal for civilian ownership in much of India (so I am told) are an 8mm calibre “sporterised” version of the SMLE Mk III\*, and a .32 calibre snub-nose version of the Webley Mk IV. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/26 "2009-12-15T03:06:23Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Also applies in mainland Britain As opposed to the Isle of Man? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/27 "2009-12-15T03:14:47Z")
Well, there plus the Isle of Wight, plus the Shetland, Orkney, Small, Channel and Scilly Isles. Plus the Hebrides. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/28 "2009-12-15T05:34:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > As opposed to the Isle of Man? 🙂 You know, I have no idea what the situation is in Gibraltar. I think it’s **Martha Medea** who’s from Over There. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/29 "2009-12-15T05:56:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oddly enough, Israelis tend to see pistols as somehow more dangerous, even “dodgier” than assault rifles or submachine guns. Because when you see somebody with an assault rifle or submachine gun, your first thought isn’t “guy with a gun”, it’s “soldier on active duty”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/30 "2009-12-15T07:51:43Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > As a non-American firearms historian and enthusiast, I frequently hear people say things like “Guns are banned in the UK” or “I heard guns were banned in Australia” or similar nonsense. One of the options on the recent “Do you own a gun?” thread was “No, because guns are banned where I live.” This seems like a reasonable response to me. I consider myself a weapons enthusiast – I recently imported an airgun for instance (which took months, form-filling, and the airgun is extremely weak and made of transparent plastic). But I wouldn’t try to get a firearms licence because I know how difficult and expensive the process is, and how unlikely they are to give a firearms licence to someone living in central london. From my point of view there is little point in making the distinction between “banned in all circumstances” and “banned in my circumstances”. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/31 "2009-12-15T08:00:28Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > This seems like a reasonable response to me. > I consider myself a weapons enthusiast – I recently imported an airgun for instance (which took months, form-filling, and the airgun is extremely weak and made of transparent plastic). > > But I wouldn’t try to get a firearms licence because I know how difficult and expensive the process is, and how unlikely they are to give a firearms licence to someone living in central london. > > From my point of view there is little point in making the distinction between “banned in all circumstances” and “banned in my circumstances”. I’m not an expert on UK Firearms Law, but from speaking to shooting friends of mine in the UK, they all say it’s not _that_ hard to get a Shotgun Certificate, even if you live in the centre of London, and whilst a Firearms Certificate is more work, it’s still not _unobtanium_. Just because an individual person is not prepared jump through the hoops necessary to legally obtain a firearm doesn’t make them “banned”, it just means for that person the bureaucratic complications and regulations outweigh the benefits of firearms ownership _for that person_… not quite the same thing, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Gryff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gryff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gryff)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/32 "2009-12-15T10:29:30Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m not an expert on UK Firearms Law, but from speaking to shooting friends of mine in the UK, they all say it’s not _that_ hard to get a Shotgun Certificate, even if you live in the centre of London, and whilst a Firearms Certificate is more work, it’s still not _unobtanium_. > > Just because an individual person is not prepared jump through the hoops necessary to legally obtain a firearm doesn’t make them “banned”, it just means for that person the bureaucratic complications and regulations outweigh the benefits of firearms ownership _for that person_… not quite the same thing, IMHO. This is correct, the shotgun certificate is easier to get than a Firearms certificate, but both are achievable by most citizens. For a SGC you just need to fill out some forms, pay a fee (£50), get a gun safe and have an interview with the local firearms officer. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/33 "2009-12-15T16:27:04Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I know a couple of people who own guns “because they like them.” They’re called “arms collectors.” This is a perfectly valid reason to own a gun in the UK, but IIRC the gun has to have been made unuseable somehow, usually by removing the firing pin. The gun is therefore no longer a firearm and presumably does not fall under the legislation any more. It is also permissable to own replica firearms, but this causes some difficulties as the police recently issued a warning to people, children especially, not to carry replicas lest they be met with an armed response team and potentially shot. Exactly how big a problem this is I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/34 "2009-12-15T16:42:45Z")
[quote=“TheMightyAtlas, post:8, topic:521150”] > [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > According to the site of the justice department of the netherlands (it is in dutch, so I won’t link) all weapon possesion is forbidden (litteraly the word ‘verboden’) with the exception of antiques (if you get a licence for them). There are some ways in which you can get a license for sport shooting and hunting, but these are severly restricted and might include that you can’t keep them in your house (even if you have a safe). How this is done eaxactly isn’t reaaly explained. > > QUOTE] > > Well in Pakistan about 35 years ago, long before the place went to hell, my father would have to go to the police station to pick up his hunting rifle, file some kind of trip itinerary there, go hunting and bring it back at the end of the day or two. All non-Muslims had their guns confiscated during some war or war scare, apparently. > > Even my uncle who was in the Army/Air Force for 30 years had to turn in his service revolver at the time of his retirement. He was a doctor, but was still required to take firearms training regularly. But once he retired he was back to being a regular non-Muslim and no guns for you, sir. Big hijack, but with respect your post is complete and absolute bull. A good friend of my father who was Christian is the person who taught me how to shoot. Had an old .303 which he used to teach me, and about 20 other guns. His profession? Bank Manager. . The guy who repairs old guns in a shop near where I live is a Hindu. In Pakistan there are three kinds of firearms, legal; meaning you can buy them without any restriction, prohibited, need a licence, very easy to get and illegal, need a permit and only given if your profession requires it. And military officers do not own their firearms, indeed they would not even be issued to them unless they are in an operational area, my own father was issued a 9mm Glock when posted to his regiment, yet when he was a staff officer he turned the pistol in and was not issued one. It has nothing to be a serving or no-serving officer. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/35 "2009-12-15T16:49:23Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > So, with that in mind, are there any countries in which firearms ownership by civilians is completely prohibited? After the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, once of the first changes made by our “transitional government” was to ban private ownership of guns. Enforcing it proved to be another matter, of course. There are also plenty of other nations besides the ones on your list. The Bahamas, for instance, or Jamaica. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/36 "2009-12-15T18:10:33Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > This is a perfectly valid reason to own a gun in the UK, but IIRC the gun has to have been made unuseable somehow, usually by removing the firing pin. The gun is therefore no longer a firearm and presumably does not fall under the legislation any more. It is also permissable to own replica firearms, but this causes some difficulties as the police recently issued a warning to people, children especially, not to carry replicas lest they be met with an armed response team and potentially shot. Exactly how big a problem this is I’m not sure. You need a licence (but not a firearms licence) for replica or “realistic imitation” firearms too now, since the violent crime reduction act 2006. Unless the replica is of a gun from before 1870 IIRC. And in the case of a post-1870 replica; you will need a reason beyond “because you like them” such as being a recognised filmmaker. * * * Going back to the OP, was there a point beyond the direct question? OK, some people you’ve met have asserted that guns are banned in many countries where they technically aren’t. Those people were wrong. But I can’t help feeling that there’s an underlying argument that you’re trying to support. Is there? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/37 "2009-12-15T22:44:25Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > After the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, once of the first changes made by our “transitional government” was to ban private ownership of guns. Enforcing it proved to be another matter, of course. There are also plenty of other nations besides the ones on your list. The Bahamas, for instance, or Jamaica. Thanks. That’s the sort of thing I’m looking for. But are guns actually banned in those places, or are the licensing requirements just more hassle than most people can be bothered with? > [@Mijin](#): > > Going back to the OP, was there a point beyond the direct question? > OK, some people you’ve met have asserted that guns are banned in many countries where they technically aren’t. Those people were wrong. > > But I can’t help feeling that there’s an underlying argument that you’re trying to support. Is there? Basically I’m trying to point out to people that the US is _NOT_ the only country on Earth in which the general public can own guns, and in fact _most_ countries allow civilian ownership of firearms in some form or another. But this thread has also highlighted the MASSIVE cultural gap between the US and other places in this regards. Apparently “Ban” has a different definition in Webster’s dictionary than it does in the Oxford or Macquarie English Dictionaries. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/38 "2009-12-16T04:32:04Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There are also plenty of other nations besides the ones on your list. The Bahamas, for instance, or Jamaica. Do you have a cite for either of those? This site for the Government of the Bahamas gives [information on applying for a gun licence](https://forms.bahamas.gov.bs/dp_form.asp?fid=303), with a fee of $50 for a shotgun, $100 for a rifle. Wiki suggests that [gun ownership in Jamaica](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_Act_(Jamaica)) is heavily regulated, but not banned: > [@](#): > > The Firearms Act of Jamaica regulates the ownership and use of firearms and ammunition. It was first passed in 1967, and has been subsequently amended. The law requires gun licenses, with a yearly registration fee of $6,000.00. There were about 65,000 licensed firearms in Jamaica in 2002, and approximately 700 licenses approved per year. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/39 "2009-12-16T11:07:03Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Basically I’m trying to point out to people that the US is _NOT_ the only country on Earth in which the general public can own guns, and in fact _most_ countries allow civilian ownership of firearms in some form or another. Right, but this is not to take away from the fact that gun laws in countries like the UK is different in both spirit and letter of the law, with just one critical difference being that you are not entitled to a licence: you can be refused a gun licence for no given reason. > [@](#): > > But this thread has also highlighted the MASSIVE cultural gap between the US and other places in this regards. Apparently “Ban” has a different definition in Webster’s dictionary than it does in the Oxford or Macquarie English Dictionaries. Similarly, it’s wrong to say drink-driving is banned. After all, you can drink-drive legally on a private road… ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150/40 "2009-12-16T15:58:22Z")
The thing is that the way the problem is approached is, if not unique in the US, very diferent from here. In the Netherlands, the basic principle of the law is that weapons are forbiddden. Weapons are then classed and one may request an exemption from the ban for specific reasons. But it isn’t a license you ask for; it is a specific exemption from the general ban. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-countries-completely-prohibit-civilian-firearm-ownership/521150.md?page=3)