# How many (dead) people are in cryogenic tanks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143 "2013-08-02T10:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/21 "2013-08-02T23:44:41Z")
So would a “black box” that talked like you, thought like you, reacted like you be you? Alan Turing would say so. Cyber life might be very pleasant…except no sex! ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/22 "2013-08-03T00:23:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Someone brought up the very astute, and essentially threadkilling point: “You” would cease to exist. Instead, there would be a machine that truly believed it was you. Kind of a philosophical mind blower, really, and one that makes the concept of teleportation of humans a lot more difficult. If you can define the difference between me being me, and me being a machine that thinks it’s me, I’ll eat a bug. > [@](#): > > Cyber life might be very pleasant…except no sex! Why not? Sex is in your brain- it’s a software feature. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/23 "2013-08-03T00:25:27Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Why not? Sex is in your brain- it’s a software feature. Preferably ‘stiffware.’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/24 "2013-08-03T00:42:34Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > Preferably ‘stiffware.’ 🙂 Well, firmware, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/25 "2013-08-03T00:46:02Z")
The term is “wetware” guys. Srsly. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/26 "2013-08-03T01:08:20Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > I did a IMHO thread like this–essentially would you download your mind (with several backups) and become a computer if it meant you could live for a ridiculously long period of time, upgrade yourself as technology advances,…etc. > > Someone brought up the very astute, and essentially threadkilling point: “You” would cease to exist. Instead, there would be a machine that truly believed it was you. Kind of a philosophical mind blower, really, and one that makes the concept of teleportation of humans a lot more difficult. I would recommend Nozick’s discussion of teleportation, in _Philosophic Explanations_. One problem is that “You” is pretty much an illusion anyway. Benjamin Livet of UCSF did an experiment where people hooked up to electrodes were told to watch a clock and report the time (in seconds) that they _decided_ to move their wrist. It turns out neural activity occurs _before_ conscious decisions are made. That experiment was done during the 1980s, and there have been others like it. “You” is itself a construct, one that occurs after decisions are made. There’s no there there. Ref: [Richard Wiseman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wiseman), _Paranormality: Why we see what isn’t there_ (2011) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/27 "2013-08-03T01:36:05Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > If you can define the difference between me being me, and me being a machine that thinks it’s me, I’ll eat a bug. How would you feel about stepping into a Star Trek style transporter, to be vaporized, with no certainty that you would re-appear at the other end? Now, how would you feel about stepping into a Star Trek style transporter, if you appeared at the other end _before_ you disappear from the originating transporter? That is, another copy of “you” would exist simultaneously with the original “you”, and then the original “you” would be disintegrated? How would you (that is, the original “you”) feel, knowing that you are about to cease to exist just because there’s another copy of “you” out there? > [@](#): > > Why not? Sex is in your brain- it’s a software feature. If you want to purchase artificial memories of marvelous vacations to Mars or whatever, you can at least read about it in _Total Recall_ or go see the movie! (By all accounts, the earlier Schwarzenegger version was better than the recent remake.) Once “you” are ensconced in a silicon chip, they could provide you with all the sex that “you” could possibly wish for, maybe even more than the original “you” ever scored. For a price, of course. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/28 "2013-08-03T01:54:59Z")
One interesting possibility is the ‘historical reconstruction’ concept. Historical reconstructions are being created all the time in our culture; from the superb historical fictions of Hilary Mantell and Phillipa Gregory to William Shatner playing Alexander the Great and John Wayne as Genghis Khan. Our culture is full of 'em. When and if we can create human-equivalent AI, we might decide to build best-guess reconstructions of these historical figures which could have a life of their own. These reconstructions would be presumably based on the best historical evidence and scholarship available. Imagine a Lincoln-bot or a Churchill-bot, perhaps dispensing idiosyncratic advice to anyone who would listen. Of course a historical character who has been recorded on film or has contributed extensive autobiographical writings would be easier to model than Temüjin or Mark Anthony. Even easier would be people who have created a [vlog](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_blog) or [lifecasted themselves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifecasting_(video_stream)). Some people today are already committing every tedious detail of their own life to posterity. Maybe a reconstructed characterbot which is created from someone’s v-log and facebook profile would be more realistic than the versions of historical figures we are familiar with in literature and the arts. Maybe, - just maybe - the characterbot which is created from all this extensive data left behind by a modern human might be made even more realistic if the frozen head of that individual is available as well. The structures of the frozen brain, damaged and distrupted as they no doubt are, might offer some clues and some constraints on the model. That might be the best hope for immortality the current crop of heads might hope for- a best guess reconstruction at some indefinite future date. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/29 "2013-08-03T03:28:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It’s not like you’d still be alive when they froze it. Cryonics may be a longshot in the extreme and/or a scam, but it still gives you better odds than letting your brain rot underground or setting it on fire. True. Me being dead, it won’t make much of a difference whether I’m cremated or frozen. And I really do believe that. To me, it’s more plausible that someone can travel back through time, copy my living body and bring the copy forward into the future than that they can take an ice-damaged thousand-year-old brain-cicle and turn it back into me. However, there is the issue of the money spent on the cryogenics. I hate wasting money. Even if my heirs don’t need or want that money, I feel like I’d get more “immortality” by helping a needy family than by freezing my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/30 "2013-08-03T03:53:39Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It’s not like you’d still be alive when they froze it. Cryonics may be a longshot in the extreme and/or a scam, but it still gives you better odds than letting your brain rot underground or setting it on fire. Mathematically, I’d say the odds are the same. Dead is dead. ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/31 "2013-08-04T07:04:31Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > How many (dead) people are in cryogenic tanks? All of them. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/32 "2013-12-12T09:35:07Z")
Bumping this thread of mine. Question: is a necropolis in the coldest part of the Antarctic a more practical method? I heard there’s a spot there that’s so cold, it will kill you if you breath the air straight in. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/33 "2013-12-12T11:19:32Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > I did a IMHO thread like this–essentially would you download your mind (with several backups) and become a computer if it meant you could live for a ridiculously long period of time, upgrade yourself as technology advances,…etc. > > Someone brought up the very astute, and essentially threadkilling point: “You” would cease to exist. Instead, there would be a machine that truly believed it was you. Kind of a philosophical mind blower, really, and one that makes the concept of teleportation of humans a lot more difficult. There was a very cool X-FILES episode similar to this. It was titled “Kill Switch”. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/34 "2013-12-12T12:46:28Z")
> [@SMBC](#): > > You were a corpse before we had the right tools, and a patient after. > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Hey](https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2405)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Hey ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/35 "2013-12-12T15:03:57Z")
> [@WhyWhyWhy](#): > > All of them. That the answer to a different question (how many people in cryogenic tanks are dead) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/36 "2013-12-12T16:09:09Z")
Frozen dead guy days. There’s one that’s on dry ice in Nederland Colorado - > **[Frozen Dead Guy Days](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Dead_Guy_Days)** > > Frozen Dead Guy Days (started 2002) is an annual celebration held in the town of Estes Park, Colorado, to loosely celebrate the cryopreservation of Bredo Morstoel. > In 1989, a Norwegian citizen named Trygve Bauge brought the corpse of his recently deceased grandfather, Bredo Morstøl, to the United States. The body was preserved on dry ice for the trip, and stored in liquid nitrogen at the Trans Time cryonics facility in San Leandro, California from 1990 to 1993. > In 1993, Bredo was returned to d... ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/37 "2013-12-12T16:13:45Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Corpsicles. It’s all a fantasy, an expensive, wasteful fantasy. But so icy and refreshing on a hot day! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/38 "2013-12-12T16:21:38Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Bumping this thread of mine. Question: is a necropolis in the coldest part of the Antarctic a more practical method? I heard there’s a spot there that’s so cold, it will kill you if you breath the air straight in. If cryogenics will ever work, no. You don’t want it that cold, because it freezes too many things (that’s the problem with regular cryogenics, too - you want it cold to kill bacteria, but not to break down cell walls. Tricky problem. Anyway, at -135 F, it only gets worse). > [@deltasigma](#): > > BTW “neuro” means only the head is preserved - ala Futurama. More innocent, well-intentioned ignorance, I suspect. One’s entire neural system is a package. Nothing magical happens at the brain boundary. The neurons outside the brain do important stuff too, and remember things. “Muscle memory” is a real thing. Or, maybe the company and the clients understand that, and are willing to live (\*live \*- ha!) with it. I’m commenting on stuff I haven’t researched. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/39 "2013-12-13T01:04:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Question: if we could download the contents of the human brain, keeping the corpse around would be pretty redundant-any progress on this fron? Since this dead thread has been re-animated… No, it would not. I heard a fascinating NPR story about “downloading” the brain’s info. Apparently people are working on it. One guy even talked about everyone having access to this info creating a borg-like one mind or common consciousness. Anyway, I started wondering about it. If a live human downloaded the contents of his or her mind to a storage receptacle, at that point each “brain” would start making new memories and thoughts/ideas that the other one wouldn’t have. In a few years they could be thought of as separate “souls”. [sup][sup]This is just a thought experiment, I realize this is waaaay in the future… if at all.[/sup][/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143/40 "2013-12-13T08:21:58Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Bumping this thread of mine. Question: is a necropolis in the coldest part of the Antarctic a more practical method? I heard there’s a spot there that’s so cold, it will kill you if you breath the air straight in. > [@bup](#): > > If cryogenics will ever work, no. You don’t want it that cold, because it freezes too many things (that’s the problem with regular cryogenics, too - you want it cold to kill bacteria, but not to break down cell walls. Tricky problem. Anyway, at -135 F, it only gets worse). I’m fairly sure that’s incorrect. The cryo companies use liquid nitrogen to make corpsicles - that’s colder than any place on Earth. Damage to cells is notionally prevented by infusion with cryoprotectants such as propylene glycol. Also (nitpick) humans don’t have cell walls. The problem with an Antarctic Necropolis is actually: it’s not going to be cold enough. It’s cold - and that would make the cryogenic refrigeration equipment more efficient to run, but this saving would almost certainly be offset by the difficulty of maintaining any kind of technical facility in the Antartctic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-dead-people-are-in-cryogenic-tanks/665143.md?page=3)