# How many gays does it take to....? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994 "2005-03-11T08:50:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/1 "2005-03-11T08:50:19Z")
In a recent discussion on another board, the subjest of the amount of gay people there are in the’ UK/US came up. I remember in the 80’s TV advertisments telling us about AIDS and how 1 in 5 people might be gay. Now this figure seems a littler large to me considering that in reality only about 2% of my friends are gay and not 20% as I had been told 15 years ago. I realise that it’s always going to be difficult to get a true answer but what’s the general thinking at the moment. Closer to 5% ? ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/2 "2005-03-11T09:22:26Z")
Apparently 1 in every 5 people in the world is gay… and there are 5 people in my family. So it must be me, my dad, my mum, my younger brother Colin or my older brother ‘Dancing Queen’ Dave… But I think it’s Colin. Sorry, Tommy Cooper moment there. I think your suggestion of about 5% is nearer the mark, it matches the number of my friends that are gay. Perhaps it depends on where you define “Gay” - is someone only gay if they sleep _only_ with members of the same sex, or are you gay after one same-sex encounter? This would make the percentage increase markedly I think. ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/3 "2005-03-11T09:28:35Z")
Thinking about it, you don’t need to participate in homosexual relationships to be gay… I was hetrosexual before I had sex… oh, for so long… [cough]. Sorry. Anyway, I’m moving more into GD territory here. 5%. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/4 "2005-03-11T09:31:17Z")
Ummm, probably a quarter of my non-work-related friends are gay. That’s what I get for being a lily-livered arty liberal type 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/5 "2005-03-11T09:49:09Z")
One in five? That’s 20% of the population. No way. Kinsey said 1 in 10, and from this board I’m given to understand that’s still much too high. I thought it was more like 2%. I don’t know what’s considered the best or most current research, but [this article backs up that range.](http://content.gay.com/channels/finance/glmoney/60yearshealth.html) > [@](#): > > The National Health and Social Life Survey was conducted in 1992 by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. It include a random sample of 3,432 U.S. residents and found 2.8 percent of the men self-identifying as being gay and 1.4 percent of the women. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/6 "2005-03-11T10:08:42Z")
The numbers have come down dramatically in the last 30 years, from 10/20% to 2%. Either the earlier studies were wrong (of course, today’s never are - scientific advances, you know), or, assuming homosexuality to be biologically caused, then either or both our genes are mutating or the embryonic soup has changed its hormonal levels. Something for the evolutionary biologists to sink their teeth into. Michael Flanders (of Flanders and Swann) summed it up best for me (though about mental illness): > [@](#): > > It has in fact been calculated that in this country alone, over 30% are sub-clinically neurotic. Or as a psychiatrist would say, stark staring bonkers. Over 30%, just think - that’s every third person. Happily, there are only two of us. ---
**Author:** ![Iceland\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@Iceland\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iceland_Blue)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/7 "2005-03-11T10:16:17Z")
Well,according to a preliminary analysis of the 2001 census,those who actually stated they were in a homosexual relationship was much lower than the figures usually quoted-approximately 80,000 which works out at approximately 1 in every 750 people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/8 "2005-03-11T10:18:08Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Either the earlier studies were wrong (of course, today’s never are - scientific advances, you know) Jeez, **rog** , you do realize that happens and things can be improved, right? Scientific review? From other pages on the same site: > [@](#): > > [Kinsey’s] study, though groundbreaking and often cited, has never been statistically relevant to the overall gay male population > [@](#): > > The [[1992 Janus] report](http://content.gay.com/channels/finance/glmoney/60yearsjanus.html) concluded that 22 percent of men and 17 percent of women claimed to have experienced at least one same sex encounter in their lives. Of those responding 9 percent of males identified as being homosexual or bisexual and 5 percent of females as being homosexual or bisexual. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/9 "2005-03-11T10:20:05Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > Well,according to a preliminary analysis of the 2001 census,those who actually stated they were in a homosexual relationship was much lower than the figures usually quoted-approximately 80,000 which works out at approximately 1 in every 750 people. Bloody hell! Someone put something in that soup quick. We’re down to less than one half of one percent! ---
**Author:** ![Iceland\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@Iceland\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iceland_Blue)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/10 "2005-03-11T10:25:01Z")
Well that’s only those who **stated** they were in a homosexual relationship…those who didn’t declare it on their forms or who had someone else filling in the forms and didn’t tell them wouldn’t get recorded… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/11 "2005-03-11T10:27:26Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > Well that’s only those who **stated** they were in a homosexual relationship…those who didn’t declare it on their forms or who had someone else filling in the forms and didn’t tell them wouldn’t get recorded… Yes, please take note of the differences. Being asked something in a relatively anonymous survey - at least for some people - is pretty damn different from writing it down on a government form. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/12 "2005-03-11T10:31:30Z")
**Marley** , all stats are dodgy, especially self-reports. Anyway, according to the cites provided by you (both for 1992): “2.8 percent of the men self-identifying as being gay and 1.4 percent of the women.” “9 percent of males identified as being homosexual or bisexual and 5 percent of females as being homosexual or bisexual.” If this is science, then, well, I’m a scientist. ---
**Author:** ![Squee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@Squee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squee)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/13 "2005-03-11T10:42:27Z")
So **roger thornhill** , where do you put the numbers at? You love to scoff at all figures presented, so where do you stand? As far as my answer goes, I would think the Kinsey answer is pretty accurate at 10%. At least until proven otherwise, scientifically. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/14 "2005-03-11T10:43:13Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > "2.8 percent of the men self-identifying as being gay… > > "9 percent of males identified as being homosexual… So were 6.2% identified as being gay yet didn’t admit to it? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/15 "2005-03-11T11:29:44Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > Well that’s only those who **stated** they were in a homosexual relationship…those who didn’t declare it on their forms or who had someone else filling in the forms and didn’t tell them wouldn’t get recorded… Also, if it’s raw numbers, it includes a few million children, which would lower the proportion somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/16 "2005-03-11T12:03:16Z")
Sexuality doesn’t exist in a binary state. It’s a continuum. And one sexual encounter of one type or another doesn’t set your sexuality in stone forever. Self-reporting surveys are notoriously prone to inaccuracies, but there’s no certain way for a third-party to determine someone’s sexuality. You can only ask. Frankly I’m not willing to accept any percentage as more accurate than any other, they’re all flawed. All I can say is that personally, in my experience, around 5% is possibly in the right region. But we’re never going to get accurate figures for this. Perhaps we’re better off that way. I don’t see what a numbers game proves or matters from any viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/17 "2005-03-11T12:06:09Z")
If homosexuality is in large part genetic, then it would be expected that the number of homosexuals if falling, as those with the homosexual gene (especially men) are far less likely to have offspring, and thus the numbers will progressively be reduced. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/18 "2005-03-11T12:34:27Z")
People who come up with figures like 10 or 20 percent (like Kinsey) are casting their nets as widely as possible. A “same sex encounter” (from the 22%/17% study) could be something as innocuous as having a gay guy or lesbian hit on you. OTOH, studies that define homosexuality extremely narrowly (ie, exclusively homosexual, with pretty much no heterosexual inclinations at all) tend to get something like half a percent. I’d say that the 3% figure is probably pretty close to correct for people who consider themselves “gay.” Note: in my area, the number of people who are openly gay is far less than 3%, but then this isn’t a very tolerant area. In some place like California, I’d imagine that the number of gays who are still “in the closet” would be very small. Also, certain areas (like California and New York) have a larger-than-normal percentage of homosexuals because these areas have a reputation for being more tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/19 "2005-03-11T12:35:40Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > If homosexuality is in large part genetic, then it would be expected that the number of homosexuals if falling, as those with the homosexual gene (especially men) are far less likely to have offspring, and thus the numbers will progressively be reduced. No, biology is never that simple. Consider the benefit of having homosexual aunts and uncles. How might that increase: 1. the survival and reproductive health of children so advantaged & 2. the number of children to be born in those propitious circumstances. recalling, such children will carry close to half the aunt/uncle’s genetic material. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994/20 "2005-03-11T12:40:29Z")
> [@bras0978](#): > > Apparently 1 in every 5 people in the world is gay… and there are 5 people in my family. So it must be me, my dad, my mum, my younger brother Colin or my older brother ‘Dancing Queen’ Dave… But I think it’s Colin. > > Sorry, Tommy Cooper moment there. It’s OT and a nitpick, but - like many of the lines now well-meaningly attributed to Cooper - the original joke’s actually by the British comedian Tim Vine - see [this recent interview with him](http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/theatre/interviews/story.jsp?story=617642). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-gays-does-it-take-to/293994.md?page=2)