# How many generations does it take before one's considered American? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585 "2007-04-18T06:41:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/21 "2007-04-19T12:09:11Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Many people have some pride in their roots. But those outsiders who don’t consider them American enough are just showing their racism and/or xenophobia. [/QUOTE] They are also showing who _really_ isn’t American… ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/22 "2007-04-19T12:29:26Z")
The citizenship thing does it for me, even if I had been living here a long time on a green card I still wouldn’t feel comfortable considering myself to be American (I mean, they can still deport you if you do something illegal). It may be that I am overly pendantic, which is why such an easy line to draw in the sand appeals to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/23 "2007-04-19T12:30:43Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Do the Amish feel American? [/QUOTE] I tried to test this out, but they _shunned_ me, and now Lancaster County has issued a restraining order. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/24 "2007-04-19T12:50:16Z")
[QUOTE=Reply] On the other hand, the actual Asian countries almost never have to deal with that issue. Long traditions and isolationist cultures have kept them pretty racially pure, it seems… when was the last time you saw a white Chinaman or a black Japanese guy? [/QUOTE] My kids are Amerasian and speak Chinese as their first and best language. Yet local Chinese are often perplexed to find out they actually speak Chinese. And speak Shanghaiese. and they don’t get the highest score in their local Chinese school’s english tests. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/25 "2007-04-19T13:52:50Z")
[QUOTE=Reply] Long traditions and isolationist cultures have kept them pretty racially pure, it seems… when was the last time you saw a white Chinaman or a black Japanese guy? [/QUOTE] 1996, the last time I was in Tokyo. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/26 "2007-04-20T15:57:39Z")
Huh, I’m shocked by people encountering “asians aren’t americans”. Must be my selection bias. Asians are everywhere around here and it doesn’t seem odd to anyone. I mean, anyone I know. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/27 "2007-04-20T16:21:32Z")
On the whole, I’d say one generation. For the immigrant, there’s usually (in my experience) the whole “greenhorn” thing. Immigrants tend to identify with other immigrants with similar backgrounds, are at least somewhat fearful of the new culture, and have accents. But their children are definitely Americans, except in instances where they have somehow been isolated from American society. My wife is the children of immigrants. She’s clearly American as can be, as is her sister, who was born in Europe but came here as a very small child. Their mother, though, clearly has an immigrant mentality (their father died without my having met him, but I’m assured he was the same). She identifies herself as American, and, as a concentration camp survivor, she’s understandably not terribly fond of Europe. But she still feels most comfortable around other eastern European Jewish immigrants. Instances of hyphenated Americans who are American citizens not being treated as Americans is just bigotry. I have no patience for it. I extend that to people who have spent their whole lives here, but are techically illegal. I can’t imagine the pain someone must feel who goes through the whole American experience and then is told at, say, age 17, “Sorry, it’s off to Guatemala with you.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/28 "2007-04-20T16:38:29Z")
Clearly your Virginia relatives haven’t been in America long enough to grasp one of our most cherished values: It’s not who you ARE, but what you DO, that counts. Perhaps one day, they will become true Americans too … . ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/29 "2007-04-20T18:20:43Z")
Gee, **kelly** , did you bother to read the main thrust of the issue in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/30 "2007-04-20T18:53:24Z")
Gee, **Monty** , did you ever think of asking a question that has an actual answer? ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/31 "2007-04-20T18:56:34Z")
BTW, I admit I went off the rails on this one. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/32 "2007-04-20T19:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] To say the US “has a history of discriminating against Asians” would be putting it a bit mildly. After World War II was over, the United States government enacted legislation to make it impossible for Japanese wives of US servicemembers to come to the US. At the same time, it also enacted legislation to make it easier for European wives of US servicemembers to come to the US. Additionally, the US government’s representatives in Europe–and especially in the UK–welcomed and congratulated those foreigners. Those White foreigners. [/QUOTE] As opposed to the welcoming, nay, cosmopolitan attitude of the Japanese government 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/33 "2007-04-20T21:24:59Z")
No problem, **kelly**. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/34 "2007-04-20T22:03:59Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] So long as you don’t look White or Black, apparently, there’s a fair number of people who will never treat you as a “real American” no matter how much longer than their family yours has been in the US. [/QUOTE] True. However, depending on where you are–a black person can also get the “Where are you from?” treatment. I got it all the time in New Jersey, where everyone is an immigrant or a child of an immigrant. It didn’t take me long to realize that when people asked “Where are you from?”, they didn’t want to know where I was born–because they would only repeat the question after I would say “Atlanta, GA”. They wanted to know my “real” nationality. So I would say “black American” and then let them stew in their embarrassment for awhile. I don’t think the question is racist, but it shouldn’t be the first question you ask someone IMHO. Especially if that person doesn’t have a foreign accent. I would venture to say that most people still think of a stereotypical white guy when they think “American”. When this changes, then you’ll find a widening acceptance of different-looking Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/35 "2007-04-20T22:22:48Z")
How many generations? When you stop hyphenating yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/36 "2007-04-21T02:42:42Z")
I don’t think that’s really the case, **Magiver**. Scottish-Americans and German-Americans are hyphenated Americans and don’t seem to ge the “Damn foreigners” treatment. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/37 "2007-04-21T07:28:59Z")
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and am sorry if is considered a hijack, but why is the dead guy Cho ( the killer) not considered American? He lived in the USA for 15 years right? He seems more American than Korean. Is it all based on citizenship? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/38 "2007-04-21T07:35:25Z")
He was a foreign national who did not get naturalized. As to why he didn’t get naturalized, there may be a few reasons for it. As with so many other questions related to this event, we likely shall never know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/39 "2007-04-21T07:42:24Z")
I understand that. It just seemed funny to me that the media very quickly started calling him a ‘South Korean national’. I read his background and thought he has lived in the USA for 15 years and Korea 8 years and he was a permanent resident who could have got citizenship if he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585/40 "2007-04-21T08:03:36Z")
Perhaps he coudln’t have gotten US citizenship? After all, one’s supposed to be taking the oath intelligently (as in “of sound mine”), IIRC. But even if he could have gotten naturalized, the simple fact is that he didn’t. Thus he was a foreign national. The media reported his status correctly: South Korean national. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-generations-does-it-take-before-ones-considered-american/400585.md?page=3)