Oh, if only it were that easy.
I’m going to disagree on this one. Everybody’s a hyphenated American in some form or other. It’s a state of mind. I had the chance to date an extremely attractive woman who deemed herself a hyphenated American in common with my lineage. She was trying to reinvent herself into some kind of cultural mold. My guess is that she didn’t feel connected to her family in general. I was thoroughly put off. Too bad. She was hot.
I should preface my thought by stating a difference between being aware of one’s family history and accepting it as opposed to wallowing in it like a private club. It’s the philosophical difference between living in a melting pot society or a culturally diverse society. I’m more interested in coming together socially then I am in maintaining some kind of identity.
Ironically, the woman I described was trying to get into a club of her lineage and was not readily accepted because her bloodline was only on one side of her family.
edited for spelling
How many times have you heard someone say of Scottish-Americans, German-Americans, Western European-Americans "they should go back where they came from?? Was it anywhere near the same frequency Asian-Americans get that comment about them?
All that’s conveyed by a hyphen?
I’ve never heard anyone say that…ever, and I’m 48. I have heard people say that that radical Muslims who don’t like Western culture but I think that’s a given. I’d say that about anyone who immigrates into a society they don’t respect.
I would say so, yes. If a person applies a hyphen as a cultural reference then that is a personal statement of identity.
If you asked of my lineage it would be mostly Italian but I couldn’t spell it out beyond the knowledge I’m 3rd generation Italian on my Mothers’s side. The cultural aspect of that was willfully abandoned by my grandparents. They saw themselves as Americans. Whatever they brought to the table was deliberately melted into society.
If you were to ask me of my cultural identity I would say American. If you asked me to define it I couldn’t beyond the marco-aspect of the British/Euro influence of language and traditions.
You, friend, have led one very sheltered life, then. Either that or Dayton is one very special community compared to the rest of the country.
What?
Do you not see that’s the point? Your “hyphen” is British/European.
I don’t know that I agree. Just about any American who is assimilated, no matter what their race or religion or ancestral culture, is at some level part of a larger European-derived culture.
What are you missing here? It’s the simple fact that, no matter how many generations an Asian family has been in the US, the ones treating the Asian-Americans as foreigners are European-Americans.
By the way, I don’t think I’ve often seen the expression “European-American” until I just started using it here. Why do you think that might be? Yet, Asian-Americans are lumped together as one great big group.
Ah, that didn’t come out as clear as it should have.
Is much better this way:
I’m not sure what I’m missing here. You argued that Magiver, who didn’t identify with any “hyphen group” was actually a British/European-American. I commented that all assimilated Americans are, at some level, culturally European-Americans. To which you, for some reason, changed the subject and responded that the ones treating Asian-Americans as foreigners are…European-Americans.
Am I missing something, or are you??
And incidentally, once again, I don’t completely agree with you – it is hardly the sole province of European-Americans to treat Asian-Americans as foreigners; African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans (if you want to separate them from European-Americans) are well known to do this as well.
Magiver’s point is that it’s the Asian-Americans’ fault that they’re viewed as foreign. That’s pure bunk. And Magiver did identify with a group.
I did not say it was the sole province of European-Americans to treat others that way, either. But, you may have noticed that it does seem to be the “trend.”
He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that was Magiver’s point at all – I think he was talking about when people stop seeing themselves as foreign, not when other people stop seeing them as that way. I get no indication from his writings that he’s laying the blame on Asian-Americans here. And he didn’t identify with a group; he said
…which, as I then popped in to mention, is true of practically every assimilated American.
I have not at all noticed that that’s the trend. Several Asian-American friends have commented that it is, in fact, disproportionately African-Americans who tell them to “go back where they came from” and make “ching chong” noises at them.
Hmmm, must be a regional thing. I did notice that it was more common in Dixie than in California.
And why is it that Scottish-Americans who identify as such aren’t viewed as seeing themselves as foreigners but Asian-Americans, even if they don’t even if they don’t utter a word on the subject, are? Care to address that?
Sure. First, though, I’m not sure that most people have an opinion one way or the other on how Asian-Americans view themselves; they will have their own opinion on how American or foreign they view people of Asian descent, but I don’t know that they know or care how Asian-Americans identify themselves.
That said,
a) Many, many more Asian-Americans are of more recent vintage than are Scottish-Americans. Asian-Americans are thus assumed (rightly or wrongly) to have more blood ties and cultural links to their ancestral homeland than someone who identifies as Scottish-American. Because there’s been so little Scottish immigration to the US in recent decades, someone who identifies as Scottish-American is usually thought to be either simply stating an ethnic (or “racial”) heritage, or if they insist on the cultural aspect of their Scottish ancestry, they’re either humored and not taken very seriously (since it’s assumed that, like most Scottish-Americans, their ancestors have been here for many generations and they have few if any actual links to Scotland).
b) Scottish culture is much, much less foreign to American cutlure than any Asian culture, pure and simple. Not all cultures are equally foreign to the US.
c) As I said in my first post in this thread, a significant number of Americans just aren’t used to thinking of anyone who looks Asian as being really American – and they probably (to the extent that they think about it at all) infer from that that most Asian people likewise couldn’t think of themselves as being real Americans. I’m not defending that way of thinking (and I don’t think that way myself), but it’s at least somewhat understandable given the history of Asian immigration to this country. And, for what it’s worth, I think that point of view is fading, and will continue to fade, as we start to see more and more third generations of Asian-Americans – the grandchildren of that huge influx of immigrants in the '60s and '70s.**
**I should add that I’m writing all this from the perspective of someone who has mostly lived on the East Coast and mid-West. I would expect – and hope that there is a greater acceptence of Asians as real Americans on the West Coast, where more of the multi-generation Asian-American families are rooted.
I’d hardly consider Dayton different than any other area and I’ve never heard anyone say they think Asian-Americans should go back where they came from. I’m not even sure what constitutes Asian American considering the region. To me, it’s too generic a term to mean anything. It’s like saying European-American. Japanese-American means something. Italian-American means something. Those are pretty distinct cultural references.
And no, I’m not British/European. I’m American. My culture was heavily influenced by British law and customs and subsequent European migration. That’s a function of history. It is also influenced by Pacific rim migration and Mexican migration which in itself influenced my local and Hispanic culture. THAT’S what makes my culture different than the cultures that feed into it.
Honestly, if someone tried to call me anything hyphenated I’d just laugh.
How convenient for you.
It’s bad enough when the general public pulls this schtick, but it’s even worse when the White House press secretary and communications director does. Pick your prejudice, and apparently someone in Trump’s crew, maybe even Trump himself, will be a great example of an idiot holding that prejudice.
Note: I should’ve bumped this thread immediately after the jackass in charge’s pet jackass put his foot in his mouth.
How long does it take for Zombie-Americans to be considered American?