# How many innocents would you kill to save the life of the person you love most? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 5, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165 "2012-06-05T15:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/41 "2012-06-05T20:11:40Z")
First things first - welcome back, **Skald**! Second things second - sorry, mooks, but you are history. > [@Someone or Other that I am Too Lazy to Google](#): > > It doesn’t matter that they are innocent. It matters that they are in my way. In any way, sooner or later you will come up against someone who really believes in his cause. You still gotta win the war. Same same here. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/42 "2012-06-05T20:18:25Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’d rather break the news to one family instead of dozens. You don’t speak their language, so any explaining will have to be done by someone else. Let said evil person do all the letters home. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/43 "2012-06-05T20:37:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \*I’ve just decided that the captive is not a child. Anyone who says different can bite me. Well, I answered the poll with the assumption that the captive is my 22 month old son, and yah, pretty much anyone in my way is going down, even if it just happens to be Baddy McBad’s dry-cleaner taken a wrong turn returning his freshly laundered shirts. Also, because I’m an uber-bad-ass in this scenario, I would then find Baddy McBad, rip out his intestines and choke him to death with them, while dancing on his freshly laundered shirts because I’d have a crazed-ass-mom-of-a-toddler, lifting cars off of shit type deal going on and I suspect I wouldn’t even pause to feel bad about the mayhem left in my wake. I expect once Junior was safe I would feel quite bad about how things turned out, but there you go. Junior comes first. If we’re talking about my husband as the captive - well, I dunno - I think there would still be quite a bit of blood and gore involved, and likely Baddy McBad still eating his own entrails, but the dry-cleaner would likely be in the clear. I would still feel bad after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/44 "2012-06-05T20:39:55Z")
Everyone dies. Because otherwise I die, and I tend not to like that very much. ---
**Author:** ![happycamper\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@happycamper\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happycamper_5)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/45 "2012-06-05T20:40:08Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > You’re all monsters. > > It’s all well and good to say you’d kill the mooks in the heat of battle. I hope the evil mastermind then makes you give the bad news to each and every mooks’ children and spouses. > > I’d walk in unarmed and do the best I could, but I’m not taking out any mooks, because for all I know I could _be_ a mook someday. Then I’m a monster, and my loved one lives. I would expect any one of the guards to make the same decision I did, were our positions reversed. It’s tragic that they’re being misled, but, according to the conditions of the scenario, there is nothing I can do to change that. The only thing I can do is keep my loved one alive and that’s exactly what I’ll do. A real monster would enjoy it. I won’t, but I’ll do it & without hesitation. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/46 "2012-06-05T20:43:40Z")
If it’s the person I love the most in all the world - my daughter - hell, I’d kill any dozen people you asked if it was them or her. Sucks to be a mook. Sucks to be the mook killer. It isn’t gonna suck to be my little girl, not if I can help it. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/47 "2012-06-05T21:18:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Continuing the Rhymer policy of arguing both sides… > > \ > > Why, exactly, should you make their nobility pointless by not killing them? I really don’t know what this means. I should make their nobility pointless because being dead sucks, and having a dad father sucks, and nobility is of dubious value compared to all of that. > [@silenus](#): > > You don’t speak their language, so any explaining will have to be done by someone else. Let said evil person do all the letters home. 😛 Touche > [@happycamper\_5](#): > > It’s tragic that they’re being misled, but, according to the conditions of the scenario, there is nothing I can do to change that. The only thing I can do is keep my loved one alive and that’s exactly what I’ll do. Well, you have another choice. You can sacrifice your loved one so that a dozen good men can live and go home to their families. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/48 "2012-06-05T21:19:00Z")
It’s a bad day to be a mook. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/49 "2012-06-05T21:28:12Z")
I definitely read mook as monk, at first sight. But monk or mook, there’s nobody I love enough to commit straight-up murder for (sorry, sis!). Maybe it’d be different if I had kids, but I don’t. I know, I know… I’m not evil or machinating enough to work for you. I’d be interested in signing up as an unpaid intern, though. Perhaps over time, I could osmose enough evil to be worthy of minimum wage! The death of my sister at the hands of a descrupled employer of mooks could definitely get me started on that path. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/50 "2012-06-05T21:28:34Z")
Every last one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/51 "2012-06-05T21:42:28Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > [QUOTE=c’est moi!] > > Continuing the Rhymer policy of arguing both sides… > > \ > > Why, exactly, should you make their nobility pointless by not killing them? I really don’t know what this means. [/quote] Probably because I expressed it really badly. Let me try again. Unlike the villainous nutjob who set this up, the mooks are not in this for the yuks. They’re in it because they (correctly) think your loved one is in mortal danger and by their moral codes its worthwhile to risk their lives to protect the loved one. They just don’t know the truth about the source of the peril. So it seems reasonable to me to say that, if circumstances were different, they’d be fighting _with_ you rather than against you. Let’s say your loved one was being guarded by couple hundred actually evil henchmen for you to handle alone. But you’re going anyway (I should hope) because you’re a heroic badass and that’s what heroic badasses do. Luckily you run into the Magnificent Dozen, share a language with them, and ask for help. They believe you and say yes, knowing that manhy , but you ran into them before going into the citadel, knew their language, and asked for their help. These guys are gonna say yes, even knowing that some of them won’t be coming out. Yes? They’re willing to die to save an innocent. Seems to me your refusal is less about keeping the defenders alive than it is about keeping the stain of murder off your hands. See what I mean? > [@rachelellogram](#): > > I definitely read mook as monk, at first sight. But monk or mook, there’s nobody I love enough to commit straight-up murder for (sorry, sis!). Maybe it’d be different if I had kids, but I don’t. > > I know, I know… I’m not evil or machinating enough to work for you. I’d be interested in signing up as an unpaid intern, though. Perhaps over time, I could osmose enough evil to be worthy of minimum wage! The death of my sister at the hands of a descrupled employer of mooks could definitely get me started on that path. [evil hat on] We don’t do unpaid internships at Evil Inc. Why would we be interested in **training** you? ---
**Author:** ![happycamper\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@happycamper\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happycamper_5)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/52 "2012-06-05T21:46:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Well, you have another choice. You can sacrifice your loved one so that a dozen good men can live and go home to their families. You mean, go home and live with the knowledge they’d been misled, that someone they intended to save had actually been killed quite horribly and that they had personally killed the one person who could have saved her? I suppose they would have to convince themselves that they had no choice in the matter, yes? That their hands had been forced? That sounds familiar. My loved one isn’t mine to sacrifice. The only life I have any right to sacrifice is mine and, in this scenario, doing that would accomplish nothing. So, for me, there is no choice. I will become a killer in order to save the person I love most in this world and, unless **Skald** moves the goalposts, my decision will not change. Believe I’m a monster, if you like, but that’s my answer to this particular hypothetical scenario. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/53 "2012-06-05T22:00:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > See what I mean? Ah, yes, I see now. So let me flip it around a bit. Let’s say you meet up with the magnificent dozen in a small shack outside the compound. You explain to them that there’s a good chance they might die trying to save your loved one, and they all agree to take that risk. After rallying the troops, you head out the door first, then watch in horror as the door slams behind you and you fall into a pit. When you come to, you find yourself in a room with a button (yup, I’m going there). The evil mastermind speaks to you over a loudspeaker. He explains that the shack you were plotting your attack in is actually a gas chamber, and pushing the button will release the gas and kill the 12 men still trapped inside, who you’re currently watching on CCTV. If you don’t push the button in the next 60 seconds, the gas will instead be diverted to the room with your loved one in it. Anyone not killed by gas is free to go. Ordinarily I would say this is a simple math problem, and 12 lives are worth more than 1. But you’re saying that the 12 lives are worth less because they’ve already agreed to do something risky in order to save your loved one I’m still not pushing the button. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/54 "2012-06-05T22:41:28Z")
I’m not pushing that button either, **steronz** , but that’s because the evil nutjob has surely set things up so that doing so ends up killing my loved one. Let me ask you a different question. Is your refusal to go in guns-a-blazing because the mooks in questions think they’re on the side of good and are simply deceived? That is, would you have the same reaction if they simply didn’t know what was going in the cell and thought you were just an intruder, and they’ve been hired to kill all intruders? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/55 "2012-06-05T23:04:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > We don’t do unpaid internships at Evil Inc. Why would we be interested in **training** you? You wouldn’t have to train me! This arrangement would be \*all \*about the added value I can bring to \*your \*fine organization. I will do all the evil tasks that nobody else will touch, like toilet cleaning and shoe-shining and coffee-fetching. It is my fervent wish that over time, being surrounded by and exposed to such evilry as surely abounds at your company, my goody-two-shoesness will erode sufficiently that I might \*at that time \*apply for a paid position. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/56 "2012-06-06T00:03:39Z")
To bring my beloved back, I’d burn the world and use my soul for tinder. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/57 "2012-06-06T00:07:50Z")
This one’s easy. The soldiers aren’t “innocents”; they’re “the enemy”. I’d kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/58 "2012-06-06T00:17:52Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > To bring my beloved back, I’d burn the world and use my soul for tinder. Then what? Starve to death together? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/59 "2012-06-06T00:40:49Z")
Sure, I’d kill them all, why not; it’s a supremely ridiculous hypothetical that is uninteresting from a thought experiment point of view. Everyone is awarded 5 internet tough guy points. What if, to move in a fantastic direction, instead of held captive by a madman, your loved one is deathly ill and the only cure is the final drop of blood from the heart of each of these 12 mooks? Would you still kill them? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165/60 "2012-06-06T01:05:27Z")
Depends. How would you separate the “final drop” of blood from all the pints that would be pouring out of their bleeding almost-corpses? We actually have to rip the hearts out of the chests of 12 people and squeeze the blood out into the mouth of the Beloved?? I would do anything for love, but I won’t do that. – Meatloaf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-innocents-would-you-kill-to-save-the-life-of-the-person-you-love-most/624165.md?page=4)