# How many leaders only have been enlisted men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990 "2015-03-02T05:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/1 "2015-03-02T05:54:28Z")
A spinoff from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750507). Many military and naval men have used that to get to positions of political power, either through coups or more constitutional ways. Most have been senior flag rank officers. Some had some military service in their careers. I do notice all seem to have been commissioned officers. How many leaders (which here means Head of State/ Head of Government and Cabinet level official but not Parliament members) have served as enlisted men only. Prior service as enlisted does not count, if they later were commissioned. Honoury poistions are ok though. I can think of Chuck Hagel in the US. Maybe some Israeli? ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/2 "2015-03-02T06:33:38Z")
Adolph Hitler for one. He had rank Gefreiter which is roughly corporal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/3 "2015-03-02T06:33:37Z")
John A. Macdonald, first Prime Minister of Canada, served as a private in the [Sedentary Militia of Upper Canada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald#Legal_prominence.2C_1837.E2.80.9343). He saw limited service during the 1837 Rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/4 "2015-03-02T06:46:48Z")
Robert Muldoon Prime Minister of New Zealand was an enlisted man during WW-II _In November 1940, shortly after his 19th birthday, Robert Muldoon enlisted in the army. In 1942, after reverting from sergeant to private at his own request, he was posted to New Caledonia, where he was again promoted, to corporal. In 1944 he sailed for Egypt and Italy, where he joined D Company of the Divisional Cavalry Battalion and took part in fighting at the Senio and Gaiana River crossings, and in the capture of Trieste._ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/5 "2015-03-02T07:51:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I can think of Chuck Hagel in the US. Maybe some Israeli? Yep. David Ben-Gurion and Levi Eshkol (3rd Prime Minister) both served as privates in the [Jewish Legion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Legion) during WW1, while Menachem Begin was a corporal in[Anders’ Army](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders%27_Army), a Polish military force, in 1941-1942. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/6 "2015-03-02T09:35:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > John A. Macdonald, first Prime Minister of Canada, served as a private in the [Sedentary Militia of Upper Canada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald#Legal_prominence.2C_1837.E2.80.9343). He saw limited service during the 1837 Rebellion. Least intimidating name of a military ever. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/7 "2015-03-02T10:32:13Z")
Al Gore was an army Private during Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/8 "2015-03-02T10:47:00Z")
Looking at the wikipedia list of American Presidents military ranks, Buchanan (a Private during the War of 1812) seems to be the only one with an enlisted rank. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/9 "2015-03-02T11:34:36Z")
\*\*Post-war Presidents of Germany: \*\* Gustav Heinemann: Army (gunner) in WWI, didn’t see combat for health reasons \*\*Post-war Chancellors of Germany: \*\* Ludwig Erhard: Army sergeant (actually officer candidate) in WWI \*\*Post-war Secretaries of Defense in Germany: \*\* Gerhard Schröder (not to be confused with the Chancellor with the same name): Army sergeant in WII Georg Leber: Air Force sergeant in WWII Gerhard Stoltenberg: drafted into the Navy, WWII (actually a _Luftwaffenhelfer_, a child soldier) Rudolf Scharping: enlisted in post-war German military as reserve officer candidate, early discharge (health reasons) Franz Josef Jung: enlisted in post-war German military as reserve officer candidate, early discharge (family reasons) Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg: reserve NCO in post-war German military ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/10 "2015-03-02T11:52:50Z")
\*\*Current cabinet of German Chancellor Angela Merkel: \*\* Sigmar Gabriel (Minister for Economic Affairs, Vice Chancellor and SPD chairman): Private First Class, post-war German military Frank-Walter Steinmeier (Foreign Minister): conscript in post-war Germany military, no details (enlisted) Heiko Maas (Minister of Justice): conscript in post-war Germany military, no details (enlisted) Christian Schmidt (Minister of Agriculture): conscript in post-war Germany military, no details (enlisted) Gerd Müller (Minster for Economic Cooperation and Development --\> aid to 3rd world countries): conscript in post-war Germany military, no details (enlisted) Peter Altmaier (Chief of Staff of the German Chancellery): conscript in post-war Germany military, no details (enlisted) (I haven’t bothered to check the actual rank of those who served as conscripts, most likely Private or Private First Class) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/11 "2015-03-02T11:55:27Z")
Aren’t there a number of African dictators who were enlisted men at the time of their coup? I guess [Master Sergeant Samuel Doe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Doe) of Liberia was one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/12 "2015-03-02T12:04:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > How many leaders (which here means Head of State/ Head of Government and Cabinet level official but not Parliament members) have served as enlisted men only. USMC Sergeant [Terrel Bell](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrel_Bell) left the service, got a PhD, and joined Reagan’s Cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/13 "2015-03-02T12:20:31Z")
Senator John Tower was an interesting case. He enlisted in the Navy in 1943 and saw action in the Pacific theater. Throughout his Senate career he stayed active in the Navy Reserve and did not retire until 1989 as a Master Chief Petty Officer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/14 "2015-03-02T12:26:34Z")
Jesse Brown left the Marines as a corporal before becoming a Cabinet Secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/15 "2015-03-02T12:32:53Z")
Alexander Stubb, currently Prime Minister of Finland: Lance Corporal in the Finnish Army (conscript) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/16 "2015-03-02T12:38:23Z")
As per wiki, Tom Ridge got drafted and racked up a lot of medals as an enlisted man, at which point he was offered an officer’s commission; he turned it down to instead get his law degree, enter Congress, serve as Governor, and become a Cabinet Secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/17 "2015-03-02T12:49:54Z")
Jimmy Janos was a Petty Officer Third Class in the Navy. He later changed his name to Jesse Ventura. He was elected governor of Minnesota and later became totally batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/18 "2015-03-02T12:53:50Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Aren’t there a number of African dictators who were enlisted men at the time of their coup? I guess [Master Sergeant Samuel Doe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Doe) of Liberia was one. Similarly though more indirectly, Cuba’s Fulgencio Batista was a staff sergeant when he led his first coup in 1933, and then had the proxy president commission him as head of the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/19 "2015-03-02T13:01:47Z")
Avigdor Lieberman (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Israel): corporal (Army) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990/20 "2015-03-02T13:36:35Z")
Of course, the most infamous of all enlisted men who made it to the very top later in life and who has already been mentioned is Adolf Hitler. All aspects of his life and his personality have been discussed ad nauseam, but I still find it remarkable that Hitler never made it to NCO during his 4 years of service in WWI despite the fact that the Germany Army badly needed NCOs (and junior officers). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-leaders-only-have-been-enlisted-men/713990.md?page=2)