# How many Marvel/DC villains would retire or be forced to retire in the event of a villain takeover? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [October 18, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751 "2023-10-18T14:09:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/41 "2023-10-21T00:55:27Z")
For Doom vs. Anyone, remember that Doom has the resources of an entire nation behind him. A small nation, granted, but a rather prosperous and high-tech one. He could field an army wielding yew-and-flint longbows, if he wanted, and lots of luck to Magneto dealing with that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/42 "2023-10-21T05:45:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For Doom vs. Anyone, remember that Doom has the resources of an entire nation behind him. Depending on where in the timeline this is, Magneto could have the resources of an entire nation _of mutants_ behind _him_ (Utopia, Avalon, Genosha - take your pick). Genosha is frequently depicted as a futuristic technocratic marvel of a city. Max population ; 16 million mutants. Latveria is frequently pictured like the back-lot of Medieval Times. Population, censored, but estimated at 500,000. I know which country I’d bet on. > [@Chronos](#): > > He could field an army wielding yew-and-flint longbows, if he wanted, and lots of luck to Magneto dealing with that. Magneto has force-field protection, it’s one of his most commonly-used [powers](https://www.sideshow.com/blog/15-superpowers-you-didnt-know-magneto-had/). It stands up to (multiple) nukes, stone-age bows aren’t going to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/43 "2023-10-21T05:52:49Z")
I was under the impression that Dr. Doom was an incredibly powerful magician too and magic doesn’t have to deal with the pesky laws of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/44 "2023-10-21T06:02:53Z")
Magic would be Magneto’s major vulnerability (see how much more OP his daughter is than him, for instance, in the _House of M._ storyline). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/45 "2023-10-21T06:25:28Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Most American supervillains are powerless or just heroes gone bad like Dark Phoenix. > [@Asuka](#): > > I mean there’s a bunch of mid-tier American villains in Marvel. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > Well, some of the top US villains could qualify on various technicalities. The [Molecule Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule_Man) is American and insanely powerful. But I suppose he falls into the category of the more morally ambiguous (after a certain point, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/46 "2023-10-21T06:38:25Z")
I’d also agree that (at least post Secret Wars I or so) that Molecule Man is a normal schmuck that just wants to put his past behind him and live a normal life. Of course, when you’re THAT powerful, it’s not easy, but the intent is there. So yeah, morally ambiguous is fair. I tend to think of him as an ex-con (literally) that does his best to go straight, but keeps getting placed in uncomfortable situations. And more often than not in the more recent eras, he’s a reluctant (if insanely powerful) hero by necessity. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/47 "2023-10-21T11:26:21Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I was under the impression that Dr. Doom was an incredibly powerful magician too and magic doesn’t have to deal with the pesky laws of gravity. And, IIRC, his Freaky-Friday-esque trick of swapping minds with people is just _a thing he got taught how to do_ by some aliens; it’s not magic, it’s not tech, it’s a mental technique for any human who concentrates _just so._ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/48 "2023-10-21T12:56:52Z")
Every superhero (or villain) has two sets of powers, their normal powers and their bullshit powers. Normal powers have a wide variety of effects and limitations, but bullshit powers are, ultimately, all the same, and all amount to “I win”. You can’t compare one bullshit power against another bullshit power, because the bullshit powers only come out when the writer has decided in advance that their favorite character must win, and so in any given fight, only one character ever has their bullshit powers. And so, in any fan comparison of who would win, we must necessarily ignore the bullshit powers, because if we don’t, then the answer is always the same, “the winner is whoever the writers decide”, which is a super-boring thread. For Doom, having the resources of a nation behind him is one of his normal powers, which means that he can very easily field non-metallic weapons and people to wield them. For Magneto, nukeproof force-fields are a bullshit power. Magneto’s normal powers are useless against anything non-metallic. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/49 "2023-10-21T13:14:59Z")
But most of the top tier villains like those who take over the world in _Old Man Logan_ rely more on their genius than their superpowers or apparent resources. That’s a constant in who wins in most comic book stories. This is a world where a rubber man repeatedly defeats a cosmic world eater using his smarts: not his ability to kiss his own ass. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751/50 "2023-10-21T14:03:14Z")
Hence Spideeman beating Firelord, Herald of Galactus. Firelord was defenseless against Spidey’s bullshit powers that day, I can tell you (sorry, got a little Ghostbusters in that sentence) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-marvel-dc-villains-would-retire-or-be-forced-to-retire-in-the-event-of-a-villain-takeover/991751.md?page=2)