# How many more attacks before the West has to consider the previously unthinkable? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950 "2016-07-15T02:38:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/181 "2016-07-17T01:25:31Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Getting assholes like you to shut the fuck up would be a good start. Hate fuels hate, and Trump is being used as a recruiting tool. So you don’t have an answer or even a clue as to how we can quell this violence? Surely some of you must. You talk a lot. You personally attack other posters that are upset about it. Some of you must surely have a clue as to what the answer is to stop these guys. Yes, no, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/182 "2016-07-17T01:33:14Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > So you don’t have an answer or even a clue as to how we can quell this violence? Surely some of you must. You talk a lot. You personally attack other posters that are upset about it. Some of you must surely have a clue as to what the answer is to stop these guys. Yes, no, maybe? I think that was his answer. I started to write out an answer of my own but I kept devolving into a rant that is unhelpful. Solving racial violence is a tall order for an Internet message board. But we do know with certainty that treating all of Islam as an evil monolith makes things worse and causes more death. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/183 "2016-07-17T01:34:45Z")
How do you stop crime? Just in general: how would you restructure society so that crime can’t happen? The same problem applies to terrorism. The best approach is simply to have a broader social consensus that violence isn’t a good thing. We get that by engaging with good and law-abiding people in all our communities. Saying to them, “Your religion is a religion of hate” isn’t going to help. That only increases the level of friction, making violence more attractive to disturbed persons. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/184 "2016-07-17T01:35:06Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I think that was his answer. I started to write out an answer of my own but I kept devolving into a rant that is unhelpful. > > Solving racial violence is a tall order for an Internet message board. But we do know with certainty that treating all of Islam as an evil monolith makes things worse and causes more death. I didn’t ask you to solve it on a message board. What can be done to stop these guys from killing innocent people? Another question: For one example, what did the club patrons in Paris do to deserve being killed? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/185 "2016-07-17T01:39:28Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > This keeps happening and you people keep making excuses. Name one attacker whose actions have been excused by anyone. One. Go ahead. We’ll wait. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Nevermind that for the moment. How about you guys that keep making excuses advise me on how we can stop the killing. What do you propose we do? Fight hateful bigoted ignorance. Theirs and yours. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/186 "2016-07-17T01:45:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Name one attacker whose actions have been excused by anyone. One. Go ahead. We’ll wait. > > Fight hateful bigoted ignorance. Theirs and yours. Excuses. Some of you make excuses. “He was just an insane individual acting on his own”. Then when ISIS claimed him as one of their soldiers it’s just more lame ass excuses. But yeah. It’s insane as all hell. Anybody that kills, in the name of God, innocent people are absolutely insane. I don’t deny that at all. Unfortunately, it’s not one or two or a few, but it’s whole freakin armies of them. Nevermind that right now. Let’s try to be constructive, and determine what can be done to quell this violence. Is there no answer? If not, then that’s a clue, isn’t it? How are you going to “fight their hateful bigoted ignorance”? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/187 "2016-07-17T01:51:05Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > I didn’t ask you to solve it on a message board. What can be done to stop these guys from killing innocent people? Actually, a message board isn’t such a bad place to start. People get radicalized on message boards and social media. Stands to reason people can be de-radicalized by having their ignorance challenged. Even yours. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Another question: For one example, what did the club patrons in Paris do to deserve being killed? Who is this questions addressing? Who here says or thinks people in Paris deserved to be killed? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/188 "2016-07-17T01:54:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Actually, a message board isn’t such a bad place to start. People get radicalized on message boards and social media. Stands to reason people can be de-radicalized by having their ignorance challenged. Even yours. > > Who is this questions addressing? Who here says or thinks people in Paris deserved to be killed? So let’s say that you guys convince me and every other poster on this board to say only nice things about the terrorists. Do you think that will stop them from killing? The point is that those terroists must have thought those people deserved to be killed. Why? How could they have deserved that? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/189 "2016-07-17T01:55:17Z")
Hey asswipe – nobody is saying nice things about terrorists. Muslim =! terrorist, fuckwad. (Are we still allowed to say “fuckwad”?) > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > You have a link to that? > > Yeah. God forbid that I want terrorists to quit killing innocent people like my friend’s friends in Paris. Okay, I withdraw my accusation, since I thought you had expressed agreement with the OP. However, do you have a solution to the problem? Other than screaming, “ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL TERRORISTS!!!” You’re no better than the idiots who think all priests are child molestors. You kept asking for instances of moderates protesting. People gave them to you. You asked what they were doing that was productive. People gave those to you. That wasn’t good enough. At least THOSE people are doing something. You haven’t come up with anything here, other than shouting “MUSLIMS BAD!!!” Do I think ISIS is bad? Yes. Do I think they’re a problem? Yes. Do I automatically assume all Muslims are bad? No. How many times has this kind of shit happened in history, with X group being assumed to be completely evil? “Oh, but this time it’s different!” Again, that’s said every time. If you can come up with something other than the OP’s bullshit, be my guest. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/190 "2016-07-17T01:56:19Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > 3How are you going to “fight their hateful bigoted ignorance”? Education. Too bad you’re not learning. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/191 "2016-07-17T01:57:33Z")
And when the “Obama didn’t say the magic words” crowd is questioned on what exactly they want to DO about the terrorism issue, they evade, because they know that expressing their true desires for policy would sound really REALLY racist. See: this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/192 "2016-07-17T02:00:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hey asswipe – nobody is saying nice things about terrorists. Muslim =! terrorist, fuckwad. > > Okay, I withdraw my accusation, since I thought you had expressed agreement with the OP. However, do you have a solution to the problem? Other than screaming, “ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL TERRORISTS!!!” You’re no better than the idiots who think all priests are child molestors. > > You kept asking for instances of moderates protesting. People gave them to you. You asked what they were doing that was productive. People gave those to you. That wasn’t good enough. At least THOSE people are doing something. You haven’t come up with anything here, other than shouting “MUSLIMS BAD!!!” > > Do I think ISIS is bad? Yes. Do I think they’re a problem? Yes. Do I automatically assume all Muslims are bad? No. How many times has this kind of shit happened in history, with X group being assumed to be completely evil? “Oh, but this time it’s different!” Again, that’s said every time. > > If you can come up with something other than the OP’s bullshit, be my guest. I said “ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL TERRORISTS!!!”? Link that. Show it to me. And there you go again with the personal insults. Can you debate the point without personal attacks? Let’s see if you can. The examples of protest I have responded about and have no inclination to repeat myself except for the observation that a bunch of clerics signing a document isn’t going to make for much real change. All that aside: What can be done that will appease the terrorists so that they will stop the killing? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/193 "2016-07-17T02:00:26Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > I didn’t ask you to solve it on a message board. What can be done to stop these guys from killing innocent people? > > Another question: For one example, what did the club patrons in Paris do to deserve being killed? Not a damn thing. It was awful and a tragedy caused by insanity and hate. You don’t fight that with more insanity and hate unless you actually want the world to turn into Dr. Strangelove. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/194 "2016-07-17T02:00:43Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Another question: For one example, what did the club patrons in Paris do to deserve being killed? They did not deserve to be killed. That’s why killing them was a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/195 "2016-07-17T02:03:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Education. Too bad you’re not learning. I haven’t killed a single person. So you’re going to educate the terrorists, and they’re going to stop killing people? What are some examples of how you are going to educate them? About what will you educate them? How are you going to go about doing this if they aren’t willing to learn from you? Let’s hear some real answers, not just cliches. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/196 "2016-07-17T02:06:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > They did not deserve to be killed. That’s why killing them was a crime. Thanks for the response. Now what can we do that might curtail another attack? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/197 "2016-07-17T02:06:27Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > I haven’t killed a single person. > > So you’re going to educate the terrorists, and they’re going to stop killing people? What are some examples of how you are going to educate them? About what will you educate them? How are you going to go about doing this if they aren’t willing to learn from you? Let’s hear some real answers, not just cliches. You are doing it again. You are switching between Muslims and terrorist like they are interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/198 "2016-07-17T02:08:34Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Excuses. Some of you make excuses. “He was just an insane individual acting on his own”. This is true in some cases. The latest attack in Paris seems to be a lone actor. We’re not making it up. Every terrorism analyst talking head on TV. Every former FBI and CIA and NSA director is saying exactly this. That lone actors that are self-radicalized are the most difficult to track and stop. People who are mentally disturbed are very unpredictable. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Then when ISIS claimed him as one of their soldiers it’s just more lame ass excusesT. f Why is this an excuse. If you’re being beaten on the ground and losing territory and fighters. If your resources are drying up. If you’re dream of a caliphate is slipping like sand through your fingers, wouldn’t you take credit for any attack as your own, just to maintain the appearance of strength. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > But yeah. It’s insane as all hell. Anybody that kills, in the name of God, innocent people are absolutely insane. I don’t deny that at all. Unfortunately, it’s not one or two or a few, but it’s whole freakin armies of them. Nobody said this would be easy or quick. This is a worldwide problem and it will take time to fix without resorting to segregation or extermination of 1.6B human beings. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Nevermind that right now. Let’s try to be constructive, and determine what can be done to quell this violence. Is there no answer? If not, then that’s a clue, isn’t it? Once again, who told you this should be quick and easy? Anybody who offers you a quick and easy solution is either deeply ignorant or lying to you. > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > How are you going to “fight their hateful bigoted ignorance”? For a start, the same way people here have tried to fight yours. Facts and appeal to reason instead of fear. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/199 "2016-07-17T02:18:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > For a start, the same way people here have tried to fight yours. Facts and appeal to reason instead of fear. All bullshit and arguments aside, we’re not going to “appeal to reason” with those terrorists. The only two things that I can think of that might actually curtail these crazy sons of bitches even a bit is to get entirely out of the region and quit supporting or defending Israel, and neither of those things are going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/200 "2016-07-17T02:22:57Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > So you’re going to educate the terrorists, and they’re going to stop killing people? What are some examples of how you are going to educate them? About what will you educate them? How are you going to go about doing this if they aren’t willing to learn from you? Let’s hear some real answers, not just cliches. No, you kill or arrest and jail terrorists. How did we go about educating people that slavery was wrong? How did we educate people that there is no such thing as witches? How did we educate people that sanitary conditions prevent spread of diseases? As with all those things, it will require replacing ignorance with reason to enact real social change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=11)