# How many more attacks before the West has to consider the previously unthinkable? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950 "2016-07-15T02:38:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/61 "2016-07-15T16:22:54Z")
Oh…how many sects of Islam allow gay Mullahs? Or allow gay weddings?:How many have liberal interpretations of the dietary laws? Whatcevidence is there that American Muslims are more tolerant than American Christians? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/62 "2016-07-15T16:27:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m suggesting one contiguous territory, with roughly 10% of the land and 10% of France’s economic resources (I’m sure an enterprising geographer could find something that would fit the bill, maybe on the Mediterranean coast). Are you suggesting that French Muslims would not be able to be enterprising enough to make the economy work? That’s on you then–the “soft bigotry of low expectations” and all that. I understand the OP new? A better phrasing of the question would be, “How many more attacks before the West responds in an unthinkably stupid manner?” Could happen any day now. Is already happening in some places. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/63 "2016-07-15T16:34:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Oh…how many sects of Islam allow gay Mullahs? Or allow gay weddings?:How many have liberal interpretations of the dietary laws? Whatcevidence is there that American Muslims are more tolerant than American Christians? They have to be better? Not that it would be all that difficult… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/64 "2016-07-15T16:45:48Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I’m not sure I disagree as much as I am a bit dubious as to some of your assumptions. The statement that I am most curious is the one about muslims being more peaceful than christians, how would statisticians know who is a christian? This data just looks at shootings, but in America, per capita, [Muslims shoot fewer people than non-Muslims](http://econbrowser.com/archives/2016/06/mass-shooting-casualties-by-religion-of-perpetrator-muslim-vs-non-muslim-updated) (and most non-Muslims in America are Christian). As for tolerance, at least for homosexuality, American Muslims are [more tolerant of homosexuality](http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-america-muslims-are-more-likely-to-su) than evangelical Christians or Mormons, on average. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/65 "2016-07-15T16:49:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The best way to solve the problem is just to kill everyone. This is absolutely ridiculous. The best way to solve the problem is for us to kill ourselves. That way the terrorists don’t even get the **chance** to kill us. Boo-ya! We win. Terrorism defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/66 "2016-07-15T17:12:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Tell me, is it that you were born without a moral compass or is your entire brain simply broken? I’ve deferred commenting in this thread in the hopes that the OP would return and post something perhaps starting like this, “Well, you know, I was really drunk last night. . .” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/67 "2016-07-15T17:15:26Z")
Well, the OP was really drunk last night … ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/68 "2016-07-15T18:04:19Z")
That there’s _frat boy_ level of drunk, it is. Bless his heart. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/69 "2016-07-15T18:15:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Oh…how many sects of Islam allow gay Mullahs? Or allow gay weddings?:How many have liberal interpretations of the dietary laws? Whatcevidence is there that American Muslims are more tolerant than American Christians? A lot of people in the Sufi tradition, which emphasizes compassion, tolerance and mercy. Not much point in telling you that, you’d already know if you gave a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/70 "2016-07-15T18:16:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m suggesting one contiguous territory, with roughly 10% of the land and 10% of France’s economic resources (I’m sure an enterprising geographer could find something that would fit the bill, maybe on the Mediterranean coast). Are you suggesting that French Muslims would not be able to be enterprising enough to make the economy work? That’s on you then–the “soft bigotry of low expectations” and all that. :dubious: The last time we rational liberals got scolded for “the soft bigotry of low expectations”, it was about our concerns that the invasion of Iraq would not be easily transformed into a stable secure Iraqi democracy. Considering how right we turned out to be about that, aren’t you a little embarrassed to go on using that phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/71 "2016-07-15T18:18:47Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Reservations. Internment camps. Apartheid. The Pale. Ghettos. > > It isn’t “previously unthinkable.” It’s been done. And it has been awful. Seriously. The question is functionally, “What would it take for you to start acting like a Nazi?” and the answer is, “a fuckin brain transplant.” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/72 "2016-07-15T18:45:45Z")
Just another crazy - the Timothy McVeigh of Nice: looking for a cause and grafting their whole life onto it … ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/73 "2016-07-15T19:03:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Seriously? If Muslims aren’t allowed in 90% of what currently constitutes France, it seems obvious to me they wouldn’t be able to carry out attacks like this in that territory. (They could decide for themselves if they want to allow non-Muslims to come into their new country.) Okay, I’ll try answering rationally. The terrorists will merely sneak in and do more of the same. France is a free country; once across a border you’re in like Flynn. It wouldn’t work, and would probably cause vastly more damage, anguish, and human misery than it could ever hope to solve. Cutting up the country by religion would set off civil disorder that would make Nice and Paris look like minor incidents by comparison. What happened in Nice was awful, but some perspective is in order. If 84 people were lost in, say, a natural disaster, nobody would go bananas over it. A thousand people were killed by Hurricane Katrina; should the United States prohibit its citizens from living within 20 miles of the Gulf Coast? It’d solve the problem, right? So why isn’t that being done? Because it isn’t worth it; forcing everyone to abandon the coast would be a higher cost. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/74 "2016-07-15T19:17:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Let me stipulate up front that by “previously unthinkable” I do not mean a “Final Solution”, or even an FDR-style use of internment camps. But I do wonder if it will require something like the proposed settlements in Israel/Palestine: giving French Muslims their own country, of proportional size (and resources) to their percentage of the population. There is a brilliant idea: uproot millions of people, then put them on reservations where (having lost their homes and jobs and often being separated from family (25% of French Muslim women have married non-Muslims),) you have now radicalized the entire group to look for revenge. Utterly brilliant. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Presumably, if every Muslim in France attacked non-Muslim innocents at some point (not all at once, but biding their time until they had a good opportunity), that’s a no-brainer. Right? Or do we stand firm on religious freedom and civil liberties (opposing “thought crime”) even then? > > Assuming that would indeed be high enough for drastic measures to be taken, what if it’s “only” a third of Muslims? Let’s say the other two-thirds were absolutely horrified by what that one-third was doing–not only for moral reasons but because they would obviously feel that the minority was ruining the majority’s standing in the society. I would submit that this is still well above the threshold where it’s an untenable situation. In a country of 64 million, 10% of whom are Muslims, how can you live with two million people who are going to try to kill you, even if the other four million are totally good eggs? Why would you even speculate on something so outlandish? The overwhelming majority if French Muslims consider themselves French. The only “no-brainer” here is your premise–it is utterly lacking in facts or logic. What idiot supplied your “a third” number? It is stupid and preposterous and sounds like something invented by Littman or Coulter. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > So then what’s the threshold? Marie LePen will say they are beyond it already. I’m not sure if I agree. But I am not sure, when anyone can make a vehicle into an incredibly deadly weapon (even without the explosives), that we’re too far away from it. Do you go to David Duke for your thoughts on issues with black Americans? Do you go to Franklin Graham for your issues with the LGBTQ community? Why would you even look at a mindless hater to get your ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/75 "2016-07-15T19:17:15Z")
I’m curious how you’d handle this atrocity. Do you rely on self-reports? Do neighbors turn one another in? If someone doesn’t want to go, how do you handle that? If they deny being Muslim, how do you handle that? If a Muslim is married to a non-Muslim, do you break up their family? What about children of Muslims–if they renounce their religion in order to stay in their country of birth, will you allow that? Do you automatically assume that Muslim’s child is Muslim? In terms of logistics, are you gonna rely on cattle cars? What sort of border security will you use to prevent Muslims from sneaking back? Will there be armed guards? Walls? Will there be exits from the new Muslim country that don’t have armed guards to prevent Muslims from sneaking out? This is a new low for you, Slacker, and you’ve hit some lows before on this board. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/76 "2016-07-15T19:17:42Z")
Attacks like the one in Nice are frightening and newsworthy, but they’re not a philosophical or existential crisis unless we make it one. There were 1.25 million traffic deaths in 2013, globally. That’s over 3000 a day. There could be someone purposefully driving a truck into a crowd every day and it wouldn’t appreciably change the number of people being killed by automobiles. Each of the deaths in Nice is a tragedy. As is each of the other 3000 people who died by getting hit by cars that day that no one heard about. The republic will survive this just fine, unless we do something really dumb. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/77 "2016-07-15T19:35:01Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > There could be someone purposefully driving a truck into a crowd every day and it wouldn’t appreciably change the number of people being killed by automobiles. It’d make folks a mite skittish around trucks, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/78 "2016-07-15T19:36:56Z")
It appears that the fool who committed this crime was not a Radical Islamic Extremist but rather someone who was off his meds. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/79 "2016-07-15T20:22:41Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > It appears that the fool who committed this crime was not a Radical Islamic Extremist but rather someone who was off his meds. I heard that one after Paris, San Bernadino, Chattanooga, Orlando, Garland Texas, Ft Hood Texas, Boston… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/80 "2016-07-15T20:31:58Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > I heard that one after Paris, San Bernadino, Chattanooga, Orlando, Garland Texas, Ft Hood Texas, Boston… And Colorado Springs, Oklahoma City, Pensacola, Brookline, Birmingham, etc., etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=5)