# How many more attacks before the West has to consider the previously unthinkable? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950 "2016-07-15T02:38:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/101 "2016-07-16T00:19:44Z")
**Mr. Natural** : Oh, I’m sorry; did you want to engage intelligently? Tell you what, respond to **Kimstu** ’s post and **Ramira** ’s posts about the widespread (and very public and very vocal and very easily discovered) opposition to terrorism from within ‘mainstream’ Islam with something more than ‘Not good enough.’ and I’ll discuss -at any length you care to- the relative value of various forms of political expression chosen by some of the roughly one fifth to one quarter of humanity you’re condemning, as those forms of expression pertain to radicalism in general and to Islamic terrorism specifically. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/102 "2016-07-16T00:24:14Z")
Evidence, not proof, of the idiot’s lack of connection to ISIS: [Nice, France Muslim Leaders Are Heartsick and Furious](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/15/nice-france-muslim-leaders-are-heartsick-and-furious.html) > [@](#): > > A 31-year-old Tunisian immigrant named Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel has been identified by police as the attacker, but he has no known nexus to terrorism. > > “We are living through a theater of the absurd and a theater of horror,” Bekri Boubekeur, head of Nice’s largest Muslim organization said. “Enough is enough. We have to act. The man who committed this carnage is not one of us. He is not a religious man. He is a common criminal.” > > Karim Taimiyyah, a 22-year-old Algeria-French activist who is both a fundamentalist Muslim and a vocal opponent of ISIS, said that the suspect is well known in the tight-knit community known as a “Nice Nord” on the outskirts of the city. > “He lives 10 minutes from me,” Taimiyyah said. “He is not religious at all. He had a problem with his wife. They are in the middle of a divorce. We thought it was DAESH (ISIS) too until his name was released. I’ve spoken to three other people who know him too. I can’t emphasize enough that he was not a religious guy. There is just no proof yet that this was really a terrorist attack.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/103 "2016-07-16T00:24:16Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Where are these protests? Are there any in the Atlanta area this weekend? If so, I’d like to join them. You missed one in Nashville just last week. Or you could have attended some of those protests involving ~2000 mosques in Germany in 2014 that a came across in 30 seconds of googling, same year as your sarcastic cite. But I don’t really think you’d be interested, you’ve already settled on your position and aren’t willing to walk it back for hell or high water. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/104 "2016-07-16T00:27:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And Latin America is full of people who have been screwed over by Western colonialism, but who don’t use that to motivate them to engage in terrorism (thank “god”). Wanna bet? :dubious: -[Nicaragua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Nicaragua) -[Argentina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Argentina) -[Chile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Chile) -[Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Cuba) -[Guatemala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Guatemala) Oh, and let’s not get into the shit going on in [Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Ireland). Or the [Balkans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/105 "2016-07-16T00:34:39Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > You missed one in Nashville just last week. > > Or you could have attended some of those protests involving ~2000 mosques in Germany in 2014 that a came across in 30 seconds of googling, same year as your sarcastic cite. But I don’t really think you’d be interested, you’ve already settled on your position and aren’t willing to walk it back for hell or high water. 2014? Any protests in Cologne since the 1000 or so men mugged,accosted, and sexually assaulted the females in January? I am glad to hear of the protest in Nashville. Maybe that will precipitate more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/106 "2016-07-16T00:56:12Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Intelligent response. Maybe you can answer why the billions don’t protest against the supposed few that are making their religion look bad, because your buddies sure haven’t yet been able to explain it. > > I mean real protest, and not a facebook or twitter comment or two. Maybe you can explain why you ignore the actual protests that occur? A lot of your complaint is based on the media not bothering to report it, but you could go outside the mainstream media to find this if you actually cared. [Muslim anti-Isis march not covered by mainstream media outlets, say organisers](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html) [Think Muslims Haven’t Condemned ISIS? Think Again](http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html) [How Muslim Groups, Scholars Have Been Fighting ISIS](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslims-marched-through-london-show-6981086) [Media Blackout As London Muslims March Against ISIS](http://www.mintpressnews.com/media-blackout-london-muslims-march-isis/215502/) [How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-clerics-condemn-terrorism_us_566adfa1e4b009377b249dea) Beyond that, your sneering comments about Facebook and the like indicates that you have not been actually paying attention to the reality of the situation. Of the 30,000, or so, recruits that ISIS has managed to drag in from Europe, North America, and other locations, the overwhelming majority of them were recruited through social media such as Facebook. Going to the places where the recruitment occurs to counter the recruiting efforts makes a lot more sense than marching in the streets where those recruited will ignore the protests (and those who cannot be bothered to distinguish between mainstream Islam and Wahhabism will pretend that they are not even there). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/107 "2016-07-16T00:59:27Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Any protests in Cologne since the 1000 or so men mugged,accosted, and sexually assaulted the females in January? What did that have to do with ISIS or even Islam? The perpetrators of those acts are, indeed, immigrants from the Middle East who need to have their attitudes strongly changed within their communities. How does marching cause that to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/108 "2016-07-16T01:02:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The best way to solve the problem is just to kill everyone. . . . Since all crime is committed by the living, we’ll just outlaw life itself. Judge Death rules okay. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/109 "2016-07-16T01:20:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Maybe you can explain why you ignore the actual protests that occur? A lot of your complaint is based on the media not bothering to report it, but you could go outside the mainstream media to find this if you actually cared. > [Muslim anti-Isis march not covered by mainstream media outlets, say organisers](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html) > [Think Muslims Haven’t Condemned ISIS? Think Again](http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html) > [How Muslim Groups, Scholars Have Been Fighting ISIS](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslims-marched-through-london-show-6981086) > [Media Blackout As London Muslims March Against ISIS](http://www.mintpressnews.com/media-blackout-london-muslims-march-isis/215502/) > [How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-clerics-condemn-terrorism_us_566adfa1e4b009377b249dea) > > Beyond that, your sneering comments about Facebook and the like indicates that you have not been actually paying attention to the reality of the situation. Of the 30,000, or so, recruits that ISIS has managed to drag in from Europe, North America, and other locations, the overwhelming majority of them were recruited through social media such as Facebook. Going to the places where the recruitment occurs to counter the recruiting efforts makes a lot more sense than marching in the streets where those recruited will ignore the protests (and those who cannot be bothered to distinguish between mainstream Islam and Wahhabism will pretend that they are not even there). Three of your links were of an annual march that Muslims participate in to mark Arbaeen (I know this because I read it), and two were of clerics signing documents. I suppose that any little thing is better than nothing at all, but it’s obviously not enough to make for real changes. Billions of moderates and few radicals, I am told. The 300 on the streets in Nashville, for the specific purpose to protest the terrorism, is a hell of a lot more encouraging than however many thousands of clerics signing a piece of paper. ---
**Author:** ![EloquentPeasant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@EloquentPeasant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EloquentPeasant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/110 "2016-07-16T01:25:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wanna bet? :dubious: > > -[Nicaragua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Nicaragua) > -[Argentina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Argentina) > -[Chile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Chile) > -[Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Cuba) > -[Guatemala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Guatemala) > > Oh, and let’s not get into the shit going on in [Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Ireland). Or the [Balkans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars). Point. Not to mention that Latin America has had a longer time to recover from Western imperialism than the Middle East has. Most Latin American countries had gained their independence by the early twentieth century, while we overthrew Mossadeq in the forties/fifties after we promised Iran a democratic election, and of course there was the Six Days War. On the other hand, there’s no denying that Ataturk made Turkey a better country after secularizing it, and Khomeini undoubtedly made it worse. And Turkey’s not the greatest example of stability after recent events… ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/111 "2016-07-16T01:25:50Z")
its really not that hard: the West needs to end Muslim immigration, and if the situation gets that bad, do to the practice of Islam in Western countries what the USSR managed to do in Central Asia. Somehow, Central Asia is one of the few Muslim parts of the world that doesn’t have a ton of militancy and people are much more secular there (and yes, those countries ALL have relations with Israel, something indicative of a lack of Islamic extremism). That the USSR did this is the only bright spot of that thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/112 "2016-07-16T01:35:00Z")
I have a communication from the SDMB Stalinist Cadre, asking me to forward their approval for your fair and objective view on the positive vision of Comrade Stalin for the future of Central Asia. Such a reasonable and sensible appraisal is rare. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/113 "2016-07-16T01:44:12Z")
OP: I agree with you that this is in the long term the best solution. (That, or paying Muslims to leave). I hope it happens sooner rather than later, but ultimately it will need to be done. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/114 "2016-07-16T01:48:15Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > OP: I agree with you that this is in the long term the best solution. (That, or paying Muslims to leave). I hope it happens sooner rather than later, but ultimately it will need to be done. It certainly won’t need to be done in America – American Muslims are more tolerant and less violent, on average, then Christian Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/115 "2016-07-16T01:51:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It certainly won’t need to be done in America – American Muslims are more tolerant and less violent, on average, then Christian Americans. Tell it to the families of the dead gay guys in Orlando. Refusal to bake a cake or open fire with assault rifles. Let me think about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/116 "2016-07-16T02:05:46Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Tell it to the families of the dead gay guys in Orlando. Refusal to bake a cake or open fire with assault rifles. Let me think about it. The statistics I cited took such attacks into account – on a per capita basis, Muslims still shoot fewer people than Christians in America, and on average, Muslim Americans are more tolerant of homosexuality than evangelical Christians and Mormons. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a very few assholes – obviously there are. But overall, on a per capita basis, Muslim Americans are less violent and more tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/117 "2016-07-16T02:10:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The statistics I cited took such attacks into account – on a per capita basis, Muslims still shoot fewer people than Christians in America, and on average, Muslim Americans are more tolerant of homosexuality than evangelical Christians and Mormons. > > That doesn’t mean there aren’t a very few assholes – obviously there are. But overall, on a per capita basis, Muslim Americans are less violent and more tolerant. So far, yet, Americans won’t tolerate Sharia law. I’d note, though, that the per capita statistics you cite are changing pretty fast these days. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/118 "2016-07-16T02:16:57Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > So far, yet, Americans won’t tolerate Sharia law. > > I’d note, though, that the per capita statistics you cite are changing pretty fast these days. So far, the vast majority of American Muslims have shown no interest in imposing sharia law on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/119 "2016-07-16T02:31:58Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > There is no God but the one God. It is not their God, it is God. Um, no. You do realize that Christians worship a Trinitarian God, right? Muslims (and Jews) explicitly deny the Trinity. Hence, not the same god. I don’t know what entity the Muslim god is, exactly- a fictional construct, or a demon, or some other supernatural entity- but it isn’t the Deity who became incarnate in Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/120 "2016-07-16T02:34:37Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > its really not that hard: the West needs to end Muslim immigration, and if the situation gets that bad, do to the practice of Islam in Western countries what the USSR managed to do in Central Asia. Somehow, Central Asia is one of the few Muslim parts of the world that doesn’t have a ton of militancy and people are much more secular there (and yes, those countries ALL have relations with Israel, something indicative of a lack of Islamic extremism). That the USSR did this is the only bright spot of that thing. I wouldn’t agree with your last comment, but yea, Communism is the one thing that really worked at secularizing Muslim countrys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950.md?page=7)