# How many of something is required to use the term “all”? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926 "2021-09-19T13:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/1 "2021-09-19T13:53:44Z")
_Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/1))_ Sunday morning meanderings… So we are a 2 cat family. This morning I see my wife and son sitting on the couch, watching TV, each with a cat in their laps. I say, “awww, you guys have all the cats!” My know-it-all son, 15 going on 45, says “you can’t say ‘all’ with only 2 of something, it has to be at least 3!” I rejoin, “we have 2 cats, 2 cats are on the couch with you and your mom, therefore, ipso facto, you have ALL the cats! Please help us settle this grammar / usage crisis; it’s tearing our family apart! ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/2 "2021-09-19T13:57:44Z")
From a usage perspective, the word “both” is generally preferable to “all” when there are only 2 such items in the universe. But this is a general rule of usage, not one of grammar. From a logical perspective, you can use “all” when there is only one such object, or if you really want to be pedantic, zero such objects: “All my sisters have been abducted by aliens, because I don’t have any sisters”. Because of the lack of options for the latter two, I did not vote. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/3 "2021-09-19T13:59:53Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Because of the lack of options for the latter two, I did not vote. Well, I wanted to keep the poll a super-simple binary choice, but I respect your integrity. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/4 "2021-09-19T14:00:30Z")
Agree with **glowacks**. Next time, dump a bucket of sand on the kid and say, “Aw, you have all the sand!” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/5 "2021-09-19T14:01:53Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Next time, dump a bucket of sand on the kid and say, “Aw, you have all the sand!” He would argue that what I dumped on his head was, in fact, only a very small portion of all the sand that exists in the world. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/6 "2021-09-19T14:04:11Z")
I also think **glowacks** makes a compelling argument. Perhaps the 15 year-old “not quite” prodigy was misguided or otherwise confused by a similar question over when it is appropriate to apply “several” or “multiple” to a quantity of objects? I would generally think of several or multiple as meaning “three or more.” ETA: This led me once to ponder whether someone with two million dollars (not me) could properly be called a _multi_-millionaire or not. And if not, does the “multi” prefix kick in at anything over 2 (like 2.1) or is it limited to integers? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/7 "2021-09-19T14:04:15Z")
> [@solost](#): > > He would argue that what I dumped on his head was, in fact, only a very small portion of all the sand that exists in the world. Yeah, that occurred to me after I posted; does that mean I was 15 once? Noooooooooooo! ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/8 "2021-09-19T14:11:47Z")
This is not gospel: 1 = one 2 = both 3,4 = a few 5,6 = (I used to have one for this; I don’t remember anymore) 7 = several (“sevenal” would just sound stupid) 8 = I can’t count that high, now ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/9 "2021-09-19T14:17:42Z")
But at what point might one have a _plethora_? Of, say… piñatas? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/10 "2021-09-19T14:19:11Z")
Weren’t we just in a different forum? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/11 "2021-09-19T14:20:30Z")
How about “all y’all”? When is that appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/12 "2021-09-19T14:21:49Z")
I would not refer to two of something as all. Just three or more. For example, if I told you all of my friend Jane’s children started the school year on September 7th, would you find that odd if i later revealed she only has two children? I would. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/13 "2021-09-19T14:22:32Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > But at what point might one have a _plethora_ ? Of, say… piñatas? When you have just too damn many. Or, … 1. MEDICINE an excess of a bodily fluid, particularly blood. (Ick.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/14 "2021-09-19T14:24:41Z")
“All,” is, of course, fine for two. And I would argue with your usage, perhaps even preferable, as it emphasizes the inequality of them having everything and you nothing. “Both” would be the more typical usage for two, but there is nothing wrong with “all.” “Both” gives more information, but “all” is more emphatic, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/15 "2021-09-19T14:29:59Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > And if not, does the “multi” prefix kick in at anything over 2 (like 2.1) or is it limited to integers? Double digits – 10M and up. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/16 "2021-09-19T14:30:51Z")
Hmmm… well, I don’t want to hijack the thread over that. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/17 "2021-09-19T14:36:10Z")
The first reply by @glowacks got it right. Logically, “all” can apply to any number of objects, including 0, in which case whatever you say about them must be true. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > By convention, the formula \forall {x}{\in }\emptyset \,P(x) is always true, regardless of the formula _P_(_x_); see [vacuous truth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuous_truth). ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/18 "2021-09-19T14:51:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > How about “all y’all”? When is that appropriate? [All y’all need to know about, “Y’all,” y’all.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkuYKI-PUg) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/19 "2021-09-19T15:00:58Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I rejoin, “we have 2 cats, 2 cats are on the couch with you and your mom, therefore, ipso facto, you have ALL the cats! In case anybody still cares at point, you were completely right and you can ignore all the pedantic attempts to lessen your rightness. IOW, all right - in every sense. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926/20 "2021-09-19T15:48:47Z")
> How many of something is required to use the term “all”? All of ‘em. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-something-is-required-to-use-the-term-all/950926.md?page=2)