# How many of these statements about female behavior are true? Men only please! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 23, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485 "2004-07-23T05:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/1 "2004-07-23T05:46:01Z")
I ran across [this website](http://www.penissizedebate.com/fear_of_rejection.htm) while googling a question on hermaphrodites in GQ, and this list of purported real world female behaviors intrigued me. I’m looking for men’s opinons about whether they feel these statements are true or BS in dealing with women. > [@](#): > > ## No More Mr. Nice-Guy That’s the first phrase the author uses to introduce you to his book. We all know that nice guys don’t get laid, but the question is “WHY?” He solves this mystery by analyzing what happens in women’s most primal parts of their subconsciousness while interacting with men. The main reason why nice guys end up to be friends instead of lovers is that females will not mate with non-aggressive males. > > Sexual Tension Can Never Be Denied > > The dynamics of sexual tension hold primacy over anything else that occurs between men and women, no matter how politically correct it might be to pretend to believe otherwise. There is simply no escaping the imperatives of Nature. A touch shared between two people can be thrilling in the proper context where it’s being utilized to lay the groundwork of sexual chemistry. The bottom line on touching is simply this: > > Touching firmly establishes you in her mind > in a clearly sexual, man-woman way. > > It’s imperative that you establish some level of sexual tension between the two of you as early as possible, or you will be doomed to live in “buddyhood”. Why? Because one of the quirks about women is that they rely on their instincts, passions and “love-at-first-sight” kind of emotional reactions in order to categorize men within their own minds. And those categories generally break down into two groups: guys who make their heart flutter, and guys in which they feel no sexual interest whatsoever. > > Women change their minds about all sorts of stuff all the time, but one of the things which they hold onto with a bizarre certainty is their initial, snap impression as to which category every man they meet belongs in. Once you get pigeon-holed as either being a hot dude or an interesting nerd, that’s where you are going to stay! It’s their ‘final answer’, so to speak. If you get yourself pegged in the “boring” or “buddy” category there is no escape! None! It is super-ultra-critical that you stay the hell out of that second category at all costs! > > And if you think it’s important to establish sexual tension with some touching on an initial meeting, it’s extra double important to do so on a first date. If you don’t break the touch barrier on a first date you are DEAD MEAT! No reprieves, no further dates, no nothin’. If you’ve been the kind of geek who never gets anywhere with women on a date, I’ll bet this is the main reason why. You’re too respectful and afraid to touch her even casually, and this paints you as dead, sexless, bore in her mind. When women complain about dating boring guys, this is what they’re talking about… guys who are too timid to crack off even a few little sparks of sexual tension. > > You get no second chance to get comfortable with her on a first date, get over your nervousness, and then try to edge up the passion up a little bit on the next date with a surprise kiss or some other lame bullshit. There will be no second date! She will not go out with you again. I have learned this the hard way several times and couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. Being too respectful and “nice” (puke!) is just as bad (maybe even worse now that I think of it) as being an offensive jerk. At least the jerks of the world seem to be getting laid here and there. Us asshole nice guys are locked in strokers’ prison doing life sentences! Once again the operative word is balance… you have to walk the middle road between being a boor and a bore. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/2 "2004-07-23T06:11:22Z")
Women either feel something sexually towards you from the start, or they never will. However, they might not show it on the first date, even if they feel it, and how much you ‘grope them’ probably wont effect it that much. Might even ruin things. So I’d say the first part is mostly true, the second part is just likely to either get you in trouble or laid depending upon the woman, but will have had little to do with whether or not you followed this advice. In other words, it’s mostly out of your hands. I have been practically raped on first dates ( not that I minded), and I have dated women for long periods of time without anything more than a kiss going on. In all cases I presented myself the same way and made no moves of my own. I think in both cases, the woman subconsciously made her choice pretty quickly, but the ones who weren’t really interested wasted both our time trying to make themselves interested. I dated one girl who’d I only see on weekends. Every friday she’s be cold, but by sunday she’d be very warmed up to me. A very confusing pattern that lasted a few months. I think she was trying to overcome her initial non-sexual subconscious reaction, but never could. Maybe it’s possible after a very long time, if both people don’t go insane. So just be yourself and don’t try to force anything, it’s either fated to be or it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/3 "2004-07-23T06:54:44Z")
Well, one thing that is true about us is that we rarely do as we’re told. Why are you asking MEN how we behave. No, none of what you quoted is true for “women” anymore than “men are dogs who lie to women and say they love them just to get laid” is true about men. FTR, I was good friends, definite buddyhood with my former boyfriend for two and a half years before we started dating, then we dated for 7 years. And the sex was very very hot, no problems with “buddyhood” dampening the old libido in either of us. In fact, having been best friends added a very special element to our relationship, one I’d repeat again, in fact, repeat to the point where I wouldn’t do it any other way now when it comes to looking for a life partner. Sorry couldn’t resist, don’t believe stereotypes, they’ll get you nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Call\_me\_Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Call\_me\_Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Call_me_Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/4 "2004-07-23T08:07:03Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Sorry couldn’t resist, don’t believe stereotypes, they’ll get you nowhere. I second that, and I’m male (For what that’s worth. I can understand why you’d want specifically male opinions, but…meh) ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/5 "2004-07-23T11:01:56Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > Women either feel something sexually towards you from the start, or they never will. However, they might not show it on the first date, even if they feel it, and how much you ‘grope them’ probably wont effect it that much. Might even ruin things. So I’d say the first part is mostly true, the second part is just likely to either get you in trouble or laid depending upon the woman, but will have had little to do with whether or not you followed this advice. Let’s all admit that anyone’s opinion here is talking in broad generalities. I know a guy who asked out a girl in our social group, and she told him not only that she didn’t feel that way, but that he was too skinny. They now have two kids. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/6 "2004-07-23T13:13:53Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Why are you asking MEN how we behave. Well, to be fair, it is generally men who end up having sex with most sexually active women. 😛 To the OP, um, of the few successes I’ve had, they strictly violated the rules as quoted. Though, jerks do seem to be successful, no matter how much women wish to complain otherwise. (One night after a party I was in an apartment w/ some brothers and there was another guy there and some woman, they had never previously met, and he kept wadding up pieces of paper and throwing them at her. She acted annoyed and kept insulting him and calling him childish and demand that he stop. He didn’t. It wasn’t long before they were outside making out. That sort of thing seems suprisingly common.) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/7 "2004-07-23T13:37:05Z")
I’m not sure about the groping part. But it _has_ been my experience that, for the most part, “nice guys don’t get laid.” Case-in-point: My sister. She has had more boyfriends than I can count. She will _not_ date “nice guys.” (I suspect they’re not “exciting” enough for her.) It is apparent by her actions that she prefers the “rough-n-tough” assholes. She constantly bemoans how she “can’t find a good guy,” yet the truth is that she doesn’t _want_ a good guy. Three of my female cousins are exactly the same way; they only date/marry assholes. In high school I was the stereotypical nice guy, and rarely had a girl look my way. It quickly became apparent that the girls ignored the “nice” guys and flocked around the jerks. And the bigger a jerk the guy was, the more girls he got. The same “rules” were also in effect at college. Two of my roommates treated women like complete shit, yet the women flocked around them. My engineering friends and I were of the “nice” variety (considerate, polite, etc.) and women _never_ looked our way. Anyway, that’s my admittedly pessimistic and cynical opinion based on 36 years of observations. I’m certainly not making a generalization; I have met women who genuinely wanted a “nice” guy, but they are in the minority. I also believe this behavior is most prevalent among American women born and raised in this country. Many women who emigrate to the U.S., particularly those from Asian cultures, do not seem to exhibit this behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/8 "2004-07-23T13:40:05Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > don’t believe stereotypes, they’ll get you nowhere. There’s some truth behind every stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/9 "2004-07-23T13:59:48Z")
By saying “Men only” you’re going to get a lot of women, especially those who are opposed to what is said in that article. I’m with a nice guy. That’s exactly what attracted me, that he was very sweet and just plain nice. I don’t date jerks. I don’t understand women who do. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/10 "2004-07-23T14:12:00Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Well, one thing that is true about us is that we rarely do as we’re told. Why are you asking MEN how we behave. > > No, none of what you quoted is true for “women” anymore than “men are dogs who lie to women and say they love them just to get laid” is true about men. > > FTR, I was good friends, definite buddyhood with my former boyfriend for two and a half years before we started dating, then we dated for 7 years. And the sex was very very hot, no problems with “buddyhood” dampening the old libido in either of us. In fact, having been best friends added a very special element to our relationship, one I’d repeat again, in fact, repeat to the point where I wouldn’t do it any other way now when it comes to looking for a life partner. > > Sorry couldn’t resist, don’t believe stereotypes, they’ll get you nowhere. Quite possibly, but the reason I wanted to get mainly men’s opinions on these statements is that these assertions reflect the attitudinal perspective and philosophy of a growing male sub-culture devoted to studying and understanding female behavior in order to get a date/get laid/be a player. This stuff has been around for a while now in the form of “How to get girls” and “how to be a player” instruction manuals and guides. The [Ross Jefferies “Speed Seduction”](http://www.seduction.com/) genre is one of the largest players in this field. [Ladder theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/) is also tangentially related to this perspective that women have a very different way of viewing he world than men do and that there is sometimes a significant disconnect between what they say, and what they do in terms of mate selection. The premise of a lot of these manuals, instruction guides and techniques is that women _do not tell the truth, even to themselves_, in terms of what it takes to get a date with them, or go to bed with them. The pitch is generally that a lot of what of woman _say_ is contradicted by what they _do_ in terms of dating and mating and how they arrive at decisions to do both of these things. These largely cynical philosophies have a large and eager audeince with men who feel that they are on the short end of the stick in terms of being able to attract and hold female attention and affection, and some of the seduction “gurus” that market these “unlock the secret” techniques are multi-millionaries via this philosophy, and even have groups of men paying hundreds to thousands of dollars each for small group seminars. In this context I’m interested if men pursuing female attention and affection in the real world feel that the assertions offered in the OP have any real world validty. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/11 "2004-07-23T14:47:12Z")
I’m guessing that if it were phrased in a less contemptuous fashion, that idea would be a lot more palatable. For instance: > [@](#): > > Guys! If you’re attracted to a woman, _let her know_! Don’t freak out at her, sobbing at her feet telling her that she’s your soulmate and you’ll die without her; just flirt a little with her. And light flirtatious touching can be a very strong flirty technique. > > What’s more, it’s not disrespectful to flirt like this. A lot of folks, including a lot of women, are flattered and thrilled when someone flirts like this with them. Just pay attention: if she’s cringing when you touch her, or if her brow is furrowing, or if she’s deliberately not making eye contact, then you need to back off and give up. If she’s laughing, smiling, making lots of eye contact, reaching out toward you, then that’s a good thing. Remember the obvious: just because she likes be flirted with by one person doesn’t mean she likes being flirted with by everyone. If it’s not happening, then deal with it, don’t get angry, don’t freak out; just accept that the spark’s not there, and cope. > > A lot of guys (myself included, unfortunately) got it in their heads that it WAS disrespectful to show sexual interest in a woman. We had the idea that if you wanted to treat women as equals, that meant no flirting. We got the idea that women thought guys who flirted were sleazeballs, and wouldn’t hang out with them. > > That’s a dumb idea. Can’t say where it came from. But it’s awful hard to get over. > > Get over it! Is that better? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/12 "2004-07-23T16:09:32Z")
I’d say the OP is pretty well spot on. There are exceptions to every rule, but I’ve always noticed (as a nice guy) that being nice in general gets you nowhere. Initial reactions are pretty big for both sexes, I think most of us categorize members of the opposite sex as desireable or not in the first 5 seconds of meeting. If she doesn’t fancy you when you first meet, you aren’t getting anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/13 "2004-07-23T16:49:10Z")
Hmm, I’m actually impressed with that OP, I think (as far as stereotypes go anyway) that it has truth to it. Especially the touching thing, I guess that’s one reason I have had woman trouble in the past, maybe not agressive enough, not enough touching. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/14 "2004-07-23T17:44:53Z")
I’ve probably been scarred for life by my dating experiences, but now I’m a father, and am expected to say something wise to my teen-age sons. There are only two things I’ve ever thought were good enough to pass along to them: 1. Some girls try on guys like they try on clothes. They don’t know what they want, only that they want something else. 2. Girls like guys with self-confidence. They don’t like wusses. However, they don’t learn the difference between a self-confident guy and a jerk, or between a nice guy and a wuss, until they’ve dated for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/15 "2004-07-23T18:01:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’d say the OP is pretty well spot on. There are exceptions to every rule, but I’ve always noticed (as a nice guy) that being nice in general gets you nowhere. Not sure that’s right: I just think that being a nice guy **by itself** isn’t particularly sexy. Combine niceness with being interesting and confident, and now you’re talking. Plenty of very nice guys are having lots of great sex. But they don’t think that niceness is all it takes to be sexy. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/16 "2004-07-23T18:13:18Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Girls like guys with self-confidence. They don’t like wusses. However, they don’t learn the difference between a self-confident guy and a jerk, or between a nice guy and a wuss, until they’ve dated for a long time. Another woman butting in. That quote there, now. That’s exactly it. Wise indeed. **Left Hand of Dorkness’s** is very good as well and on the same tangent in a way. OP’s quote sounds like a bit of a jerk and **Dorkness’** version comes across as a confident guy. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/17 "2004-07-23T18:18:01Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Ladder theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/) is also tangentially related to this perspective that women have a very different way of viewing he world than men do and that there is sometimes a significant disconnect between what they say, and what they do in terms of mate selection. Wow. :eek: Lot’s of truth on that page. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/18 "2004-07-23T18:59:52Z")
I’m madly in love with a “nice” guy. We have awesome sex, too. Unfortunately, I had to go through a series of jerks before I was ready for him, but now that I have him I won’t turn back to the jerks. Nice guys may finish last, but at least they finish. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/19 "2004-07-23T19:46:45Z")
I think you need to define what you are looking for. Are you looking for a female to have sex with, or are you looking for a relationship with the potential to be longterm? If you just want sex/shortterm relationship, then maybe NOT being Mr Nice Guy has it’s advantages, but be prepared to wonder what the heck happened when she wanders off with the next “interesting” guy. But then, in the theme of stereotyping… ``` "All Men Just Want Sex" :smack: ``` ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485/20 "2004-07-23T19:52:03Z")
I think we’re confusing “nice” with “unconfident”. I’m also a nice guy who was friends with my GF all throughout highschool. At first my GF didn’t give me a second glance (she always thought of me as a “nice nerd”). I was always the guy who you could talk to but not “dating material”. I wasn’t very confident with myself. I had plenty of female friends who confided in me about asshole boy friends but I never was able to take our friendships to the next level. I was much more sucessful online where my looks wouldn’t be an issue (Asian guys normally get shafted by “white” girls) but I didn’t take those that far since all the women I met were in the states. It wasn’t until my GF practically beat me over the head with the clue stick that I realized what she wanted and we haven’t been a part in 2 years. Every “nice” guy that complains about not getting a girl is usually just lacking confidence when approaching a women…or is horrible disfigured 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-of-these-statements-about-female-behavior-are-true-men-only-please/256485.md?page=2)