# How many paying subscribers does this board currently have? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 22, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167 "2005-08-22T20:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/81 "2005-08-27T02:59:53Z")
> [@Alien](#): > > Well, you are wrong (see cite in my previous post). On a board users open, refresh and preview posts all the time, that’s why boards require more bandwidth than regular websites. > > You still haven’t answer my question from before. How can you know that hosting SDMB costs $200/month when you don’t know how much bandwidth and how many page views the board is currently serving? Again, define “regular”. Ever see the logs of commercial websites using lots of graphics to know the bandwidth they use? I have. MANY such logs. And I didn’t say the SDMB is using hosting that they currently pay $200 a month for. Merely that with the right host, it would cost no more than $200 a month. Bandwidth would be a non-issue for the SDMB. Server resources however could be an issue. **Kaotic** already has pointed out based on his extensive experience this site would require only a “modest” server. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/82 "2005-08-27T03:28:28Z")
> [@Alien](#): > > SDMB has over 300.000 threads, 6.4 million post, and has for a long time been listed amongst Top 50 on [bigboards.com](http://bigboards.com). Out of what ass does [big-boards.com](http://big-boards.com) get its stats? The SDMB has 54441 members??? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6499218&postcount=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6499218&postcount=2) TubaDiva states there that the SDMB: > [@](#): > > As of Monday, August 22, 5:23 p.m. eastern daylight time: > > 3,473 current subscribers > 1,468 expired subscriptions > 4,941 total ---
**Author:** ![squeekster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@squeekster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeekster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/83 "2005-08-27T03:45:52Z")
Suppose, just for a moment, that the powers that be fixed it so that only the most recent 15 to 20 pages of posts could be posted to. And all the rest would be moved to an “Archive” section for each forum. IE: an archive for ATMB, one for comments on Cecils columns, and so forth. They would still be readable, but would be locked so that no one could post in them. I ask because the ATMB has 135 pages, all available to post in and they go back to 3/13/1999. General questions is **2233 pages** and goes back to 6/1/1999. As I have said, I am no expert as far as how a message board works, but it seems to me that if all those pages were in a read only archive forum, it may speed things up. Is that a possibility? The reason I ask is that EZBoards has a requirement that each forum on a board can only have up to 20 pages and all the rest are deleted if they are not moved to a seperate forum on the board. ---
**Author:** ![squeekster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@squeekster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeekster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/84 "2005-08-27T03:48:01Z")
Thinking about it even further, it seems rather pointless to have threads even available to read that are 6 years old. What are the odds that anyone has looked at the oldest thread on these boards in the last 6 months? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/85 "2005-08-27T03:53:23Z")
> [@squeekster](#): > > Thinking about it even further, it seems rather pointless to have threads even available to read that are 6 years old. What are the odds that anyone has looked at the oldest thread on these boards in the last 6 months? People frequently in fact do so through the search function. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/86 "2005-08-27T04:06:51Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > That cite isn’t at all credible. And the average website is more on the order of a simple personal homepage. I’m comparing against other sites on _dedicated_ servers. I know the cite will not count as an authoritative source. That was just a web post from a reseller. But I’ve seen the same argument multiple time over several years. Boards uses a lot of cpu + bandwidth. The only type of sites requiring more resources are warez and download sites (bandwidth that is). As for e-commerce sites, the big cost is mainly security and stability. > [@rfgdxm](#): > > Again, define “regular”. Ever see the logs of commercial websites using lots of graphics to know the bandwidth they use? I have. MANY such logs. > > And I didn’t say the SDMB is using hosting that they currently pay $200 a month for. Merely that with the right host, it would cost no more than $200 a month. Bandwidth would be a non-issue for the SDMB. Server resources however could be an issue. **Kaotic** already has pointed out based on his extensive experience this site would require only a “modest” server. Exactly, _how_ can you know that $200 is enough when you don’t know how much bandwidth and how many page views the board is currently serving? Can you answer this at all? I don’t give a damn about what **Kaotic** said, he didn’t specify anything, what kind of database he was talking about, whether he was running web services or not, nor did he say anything about user behaviour (load patterns). I’m sure he knows more than me about databases. Hell, that wouldn’t take much. But I trust myself and I’ve hosted some sites since my first one with HE back in 97. All small sites, from a few thousand to 40.000-50.000 uniques/month. So nothing big. But I’ve been burned a few times and I have learned my way around the ropes. Over the years, I’ve learned how the business works. You, obviously, just don’t get it. The supercheap hosting providers you’ll find on google is _the same product_ as the one from high-end providers like Rackspace. It might even be the _same type of computer_ connected to the _same pipe_. It’s just sold at a cheaper price because they oversell (crowd the servers) and have less staff hours on maintance. The word is: Resellers! Yes, I have no doubt that Chicago Reader could find a cheaper host, or a host providing more resources for the price they are paying now. But this comes at a price. Offers starting at $100 is just a box connected to the internet with a few gigs of transfer, and that’s it. Chicago Reader has chosen a no-headache provider which does all the work, and my guess is that they have done that because they want their inhouse IT resources to serve the Chicago Reader, not SDMB. Also, they can re-negotiate the contract, Rackspace is pretty flexible that way. I’m not going to say that SDMB’s current host is the best one for them. I’m on the outside, I don’t know what service they are currently renting and I have not seen the SDMB logs. FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/87 "2005-08-27T04:15:43Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Out of what ass does [big-boards.com](http://big-boards.com) get its stats? The SDMB has 54441 members??? > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6499218&postcount=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6499218&postcount=2) > > TubaDiva states there that the SDMB: If you take a step back and think for a moment: SDMB’s _current_ 3.500 paying members + guests have not posted all the the 6.4 million posts. I’m sure you knew that … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/88 "2005-08-27T04:23:57Z")
> [@Alien](#): > > If you take a step back and think for a moment: SDMB’s _current_ 3.500 paying members + guests have not posted all the the 6.4 million posts. I’m sure you knew that … 😉 And what the hell is the relevance of **non-users** of the SDMB on server utilization and bandwidth? Also, explain precisely how [big-boards.com](http://big-boards.com) knows how many ex-users this site has? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/89 "2005-08-27T04:26:57Z")
> [@squeekster](#): > > Suppose, just for a moment, that the powers that be fixed it so that only the most recent 15 to 20 pages of posts could be posted to. And all the rest would be moved to an “Archive” section for each forum. IE: an archive for ATMB, one for comments on Cecils columns, and so forth. They would still be readable, but would be locked so that no one could post in them. I ask because the ATMB has 135 pages, all available to post in and they go back to 3/13/1999. General questions is **2233 pages** and goes back to 6/1/1999. > > As I have said, I am no expert as far as how a message board works, but it seems to me that if all those pages were in a read only archive forum, it may speed things up. Is that a possibility? The reason I ask is that EZBoards has a requirement that each forum on a board can only have up to 20 pages and all the rest are deleted if they are not moved to a seperate forum on the board. I do not know why it would it speed things up. The PHP code must be parsed, and the database accessed, for every read. And reads far outnumber writes on nearly any message board. On my Board, the ratio works out to be about 10:1 (at 254,229 posts, there were 2,637,865 views). It’s been posted hundreds of times before in here - it’s not the posts that are the largest bandwidth and processing load, it’s the reads. If the SDMB were to make threads into static pages, delete posts, and compress/optimize the database, then it might speed things up. But that would be a lot of work to do and content lost, and it would make them more difficult to search on…remember, there is the desire not to modify the software in any way, even ways far, far less radical than that. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/90 "2005-08-27T04:38:59Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > And what the hell is the relevance of **non-users** of the SDMB on server utilization and bandwidth? Also, explain precisely how [big-boards.com](http://big-boards.com) knows how many ex-users this site has? I would appreciate if you could top twisting and twirling. I referred to [bigboards.com](http://bigboards.com) as kind of a cite that this is a popular (=huge) board. Huge boards use a lot of resources unless they have only been popular in the past. Get it? As for the [bigboards.com](http://bigboards.com) site, go there and read the faq. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/91 "2005-08-27T04:56:49Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I do not know why it would it speed things up. The PHP code must be parsed, and the database accessed, for every read. And reads far outnumber writes on nearly any message board. On my Board, the ratio works out to be about 10:1 (at 254,229 posts, there were 2,637,865 views). > > . Well, let’s calculate. If your experience is typical, then the SDMB, which has 6.4 miliion posts would have perhaps 64 miliion views. That works out to about a milion views/month for the board. But, of course, any board could have that many views by their members for $200/month. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/92 "2005-08-27T05:56:37Z")
I only have one question, as an amatuer historian/statician, that is only slightly related. My apology will occur now, so as to not muddle my post later: Desole for the query. Anyway, is there anyway one could find out the average cost per costumer? From the beginning of this thread, I basically realize there is no way for this to happen (for us to see atleast), but felt like I should ask in this manner anyway. For no reason, I have a burning desire to track the Charter Member to Member status overtime. Other than that, I really don’t have any complaints. Even if it is a fairly large part of my life, I almost never have any problems accessing the boards or, for that matter, searching the archives. Just so you aren’t spending the money on cake without inviting me, I think it is a pretty snazzy system. Hooray subscriptions! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/93 "2005-08-27T09:34:26Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > your humble TubaDiva This is a problem though. You’re not very humble, are you? (Unless this is a woosh and intended ironically) This answer… > [@TubaDiva](#): > > This info was not just “dropped in your lap;” it’s always been this way and it has not been a secret. If you have chosen to perceive it differently through ignorance or unwillingness to accept reality, that’s really too bad. … demonstrates a clear lack of “humble” and I think that being snarky when members ask questions, offer advice or critisize the workings of the board in a civil manner, is uncalled for. Maybe I should bring this to the Pit, but you _do_ perceive this as _your_ board, don’t you? You protect it like it’s your baby and anyone who voices an opinion that is even faintly hinting at critisism is slammed. But I guess it’s OK for you to use a phrase where you call another poster “ignorant” and “unwilling to accept reality” outside the pit. Some are indeed more equal than others. Maybe it’s not a server problem at all, but a management problem. A community on a board like this is the sum of its members, not the management. I can go to a restaurant or bar, where I don’t like the owner, but do like the crowd that’s hanging out there. Increasingly, I find this to be the case of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/94 "2005-08-27T10:50:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I can go to a restaurant or bar, where I don’t like the owner, but do like the crowd that’s hanging out there. Increasingly, I find this to be the case of the SDMB. Interestingly enough, I was at a restaurant just the other day; it’s a place I like very much, a very amiable crowd. They’ve been in business for many years. The owner came by and asked how everything was, and I said it was fine, but that I thought he would do better by setting up the bar as a separate profit center, by offering t-shirts for sale with his logo on it, and by charging more for drinks and less for steak. Also, of course, if he would print the “specials of the day” on plastic cards, full of witty sayings, then he could sell those too. He smiled blankly at me and then moved on to the next table. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/95 "2005-08-27T12:20:26Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Also, explain precisely how [big-boards.com](http://big-boards.com) knows how many ex-users this site has? [It is posted right on the SDMB home page, Einstein](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/): > [@](#): > > Straight Dope Message Board Statistics > > Threads: 319,095, Posts: 6,407,019, Members: 54,466 > Welcome to our newest member, The Supreme Dada It is down near the bottom, under the heading, What’s Going On ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/96 "2005-08-27T12:37:25Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Well, let’s calculate. > > If your experience is typical, then the SDMB, which has 6.4 miliion posts would have perhaps 64 miliion views. That works out to about a milion views/month for the board. The SDMB probably has far more than a 10:1 ratio like I have, for the following reasons: 1. My place is private (not many lurkers), and about 1/3 of it is Members Only. 2. I ban about 1/3 of all the IP addresses that exist. 3. I exclude all Search engine bots I can. 4. There is no greater tie in, like Cecil, nor a corporate tie-in, like the Reader. 5. Finally, my place is for my Community. It’s of little to no interest to anyone else. I’ll hazard the view/post ratio for the SDMB is as high as 50:1, maybe 100:1 when it gets linked from outside (Slashdotted). ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/97 "2005-08-27T13:07:35Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Well, let’s calculate. > > If your experience is typical, then the SDMB, which has 6.4 miliion posts would have perhaps 64 miliion views. That works out to about a milion views/month for the board. > > But, of course, any board could have that many views by their members for $200/month. ☹ Una, did you mean that was per month? Or the average post gets 10 reads after it is made period since it is made? It is also pretty near impossible to generalize this. I have seen many boards where posts are almost never read months after they are made. The SDMB way well be an exception. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/98 "2005-08-27T13:12:24Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [It is posted right on the SDMB home page, Einstein](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/):It is down near the bottom, under the heading, What’s Going On OK. Note total number of posters since the beginning is irrelevant to current usage. Someone who made a few posts in 2000 and went away forever uses no server resources today (except disk space.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/99 "2005-08-27T13:54:33Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > OK. Note total number of posters since the beginning is irrelevant to current usage. Someone who made a few posts in 2000 and went away forever uses no server resources today (except disk space.) As **Alien** pointed out, the big-boards reference is a point of comparison to other boards. Whether you think it should use X resources is not the point of the cite, only that it ranks in the top 50 among comparable boards. Perhaps all the top fifty could be run for $200 a month, but that is not the point. The point is, all 1335 ranked messageboards are judged on the same criteria, and the SDMB ranks in the top fifty. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/100 "2005-08-27T14:08:29Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Una, did you mean that was per month? Or the average post gets 10 reads after it is made period since it is made? It is also pretty near impossible to generalize this. I have seen many boards where posts are almost never read months after they are made. The SDMB way well be an exception. You quoted Sam so I’m not sure who you’re talking to. Assuming it’s me, my numbers are lifetime, over 4 years. However, I also noted in my second post in here several other sources of error when making comparisons between my place and the SDMB. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167.md?page=6)