# How many paying subscribers does this board currently have? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 22, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167 "2005-08-22T20:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/121 "2005-08-28T19:57:46Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > And that’s why I said that TD is treating this as her baby. Most mothers (and fathers) will lash out if anyone critisizes their child. > Members have been warned for less, but I guess some are more equal than others. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/122 "2005-08-29T12:06:00Z")
Wow. I’m not sure I want to jump into this thread here but I want to make a couple of points. This has turned out way too long, if you’re tempted to skip this post could I politely request you just read point 3 at the end as it’s the important one. 1/ I sorry but I’m going to skip the fairly well reasoned argument from earlier on in the thread regarding bandwidth/costs/cpu and go about it a different way … lets assume, as **jrfranchi** did on page one, that we have 1/3 charter members. That means that _on average_ every one has contributed around $12 (actually $12.50 but we’ll contribute the 50c to overheads to make my life easy). Or $1 a month. Lets say you get 1Gb of bandwidth per buck (figures vary wildly but this is a ball park). Looking a couple of pages I have open I’d say that the rough page size is 175K. That means roughly 5715 pages per Gb. Or 200 odd pages per day, yes I’ve rounded that figure off a bit to make it nice. You can adjust that if you disagree with my price-per-gig guess, 2Gb/$1 is 400 pages per day, .5Gb/$1 is 100 ppd. And so on. We’re ignoring actual posting and I’ve avoided the last great unknown: guests and lurkers. Lets say we have 3 guests/lurkers for every person. But you can pick your own figure. That means that the board can sustain, _in bandwidth terms_, an average of **50 pages per person per day**. For me that’s plenty, for a heavy user maybe that’s not enough. In the end I suspect it all averages out and the board just about pays for itself. I’m assuming that the server can handle that load, it probably can’t handle the peak load hence the slow downs that people experience. Knock off some pages per day if you wanna upgrade the server so that it copes with peak load (of course it’ll be mostly idle during off peak load which isn’t good either). 2/ This board / site could make money. Looking at the calculations, what we know of how the board runs, and other bits we’ve worked out I come to the conclusion that the board can easily make money. There are even tons of different ways to do it. If it were me I’d do limited targeted advertising but lots of affiliate schemes (Amazon, iTunes, you know the drill). I also believe some tweaking of the server/page formats could drastically reduce the bandwidth requirements, I’ve no idea about the load on the server itself. Of course you could go a completely different route and have extra features that cost more. Or even more ads. Or go with the cafe press merchandise. If you search this forum there are dozens, maybe even hundreds, of great ideas to make this site anywhere from just profitable to really profitable. The may be an initial amount of effort to set things up, but if done right this could be minimised. Of course the trick would be to consult the members to gauge what would make money and minimise annoyance. Any handful of these changes/tweaks/initiatives could provide the money, performance or bandwidth boost necessary for some of the bells and whistles people might like. With work you could do that _and_ make money. 3/ Someone somewhere **doesn’t want to make money off this site**. I presume that it’s the Reader that doesn’t care. Why ? Who knows, maybe they’re content to ignore it if it looks after itself, maybe they don’t have the time or energy to bother about it, maybe it’s not part of their strategy, maybe no-one has ever presented a decent business plan to show why it should make money, maybe someone has and they didn’t read it, maybe, maybe, maybe. Whatever the reason, it’s the truth. Whilst they’re not sitting on a gold mine here, they may have a viable copper mine. I hold out no hope for them ever changing their minds. It’s been said before, and better than I have here, and been ignored. Unless something radically changes somewhere in the chain I doubt that having new will happen. And sadly a change is more likely to impact the SDMB in a bad way than a good one. Many people over the years, and I gladly add my name to the list, have offered free help to improve the SDMB or implement money making ideas or produce a solid plan showing the potential of the board. To my knowledge none of this has happened. I expect that the reply to this post will be “Well, you don’t understand, we’ve looked at these things and we don’t think they’ll work for us and it would cost too much to set up.”. My answer to that, in advance: You’re wrong, I’m sorry but you are, someone screwed up. It can work, it is possible, hell we can even prove it if you’d give us the details we need (those mysterious server specs and the hosting/bandwidth costs might be a start). The continued confusion of the members isn’t because we’re all really dense, it’s because we already know this. Dont’ take this as critisism of the way things have been done up until now, take this as a positive look to the future of what we can all acheive together. Really. SD ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/123 "2005-08-29T16:53:15Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > 3/ Someone somewhere **doesn’t want to make money off this site**. I presume that it’s the Reader that doesn’t care. Why ? Who knows, maybe they’re content to ignore it if it looks after itself, maybe they don’t have the time or energy to bother about it, maybe it’s not part of their strategy, maybe no-one has ever presented a decent business plan to show why it should make money, maybe someone has and they didn’t read it, maybe, maybe, maybe. > > Whatever the reason, it’s the truth. Whilst they’re not sitting on a gold mine here, they may have a viable copper mine. Note: I am having to retype this post because this lousy server timed out and ate the first post. :mad: The Gaspode earlier hit the nail on the head in this post: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6511167&postcount=52](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6511167&postcount=52) The Reader knows jack shit about making money on the Internet. Everything in your post is correct. The Reader just doesn’t understand this. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/124 "2005-08-29T18:25:20Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > 3,473 current subscribers > 1,468 expired subscriptions > 4,941 total This gets asked all the time. Maybe, with an update to vBulletin 3.5, a plugin could be installed that displays the number of _paying_ members along with the threads and posts. > [@rfgdxm](#): > > What I don’t understand is how after charging for subscriptions, the board has gone to hell in terms of performance? Let’s assume this board in now breaking even. My guess is the server this board runs on is so obsolete it could fetch maybe $100 if sold on Ebay if someone paid too much for it. It’s a bit slow compared to other vBulletin sites, but nowhere near as bad as it used to be. The membership fees helped throttle membership growth, so the board would be more usable in the long run. Before paid memberships, the SDMB _crawled_, and often it was just plain locked up. Afterwards, it was quite fast. It’s gotten a little bit slower since then, IMHO, but not to the extent encountered in the free membership days. The vBulletin code is supposedly quite tight compared to other message board scripts, so there’s little in the way of bloat or cruft. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/125 "2005-08-29T19:02:17Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s a bit slow compared to other vBulletin sites, but nowhere near as bad as it used to be. The membership fees helped throttle membership growth, so the board would be more usable in the long run. Before paid memberships, the SDMB _crawled_, and often it was just plain locked up. Afterwards, it was quite fast. It’s gotten a little bit slower since then, IMHO, but not to the extent encountered in the free membership days. I was here before the board went to paid subscriptions. Before that, performance was terrible. After it went pay, performance jumped up to minimally adequate. However, since then this board has deteriorated to poor performance. With that large infusion of subscription money, I’d have expected the first change would be a better server. We are no longer limited like before to have to make do with whatever amount the Reader would donate to keep this board going. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/126 "2005-08-29T19:06:56Z")
Good post **Spacedog**. I guess I’m a pretty “light user” because I usually only get a few operation timeouts per week, lol. I’m really not complaining about the Reader’s choice of servers or not giving out the specs. I just get tired of constantly getting an under the knife feel from the management. It seems with a little effort the place could sustain itself. I mean it was nice of **jrfranchi** to buy the shirts and mugs but why did he have to find out about it in a complaint thread? The fact that buying stuff from the store is connected to the MBs finances should be obvious on the MBs front page. Also, by having a link from there you can show the Reader that the MB directs people to the store (ie not a waste of money). I’m really not a spiteful person. Even if I don’t renew I’d like this board to be around for when I get nostalgiac in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/127 "2005-08-29T19:13:56Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > With that large infusion of subscription money, I’d have expected the first change would be a better server. We are no longer limited like before to have to make do with whatever amount the Reader would donate to keep this board going. You’d have expected wrong. It’s been pointed out to you time and time again that there were no guarantees and no expectations about any type of improvement of service. The Reader was simply using the paid subscription model to perhaps try to recoup some earlier losses. If I keep pointing out that you have a mole on your nose, and you keep insisting that it’s not really a mole, but actually the beginnings of a new thumb, the reality remains that _you have a mole on your nose._ Just because you expect something great to happen with your “new thumb” doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gonna happen. Dude, seriously, give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/128 "2005-08-29T19:43:52Z")
> [@Feydeau](#): > > You’d have expected wrong. It’s been pointed out to you time and time again that there were no guarantees and no expectations about any type of improvement of service. The Reader was simply using the paid subscription model to perhaps try to recoup some earlier losses. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4800777&postcount=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4800777&postcount=1) “The old system of no fees and lousy service wasn’t cutting it. We think it’s time to give the mighty power of capitalism a try.” I presumed Ed didn’t mean that the new system would be fees and lousy service. ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/129 "2005-08-29T19:48:48Z")
“Lousy” service is, quite obviously, a subjective term. Many, many people have posted that the boards performance has improved since we went to paid subscriptions. Are you still here? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/130 "2005-08-29T19:54:56Z")
> [@Feydeau](#): > > “Lousy” service is, quite obviously, a subjective term. > > Many, many people have posted that the boards performance has improved since we went to paid subscriptions. > > Are you still here? And many have posted they find the performance still a problem. Unlike you, some of us stay and hope to make things better. Read SpaceDog’s post above. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/131 "2005-08-29T20:31:24Z")
I just checked the Reader’s [info](http://www.chicagoreader.com/readerinc/WebsiteStats.html) to advertisers: > [@The Reader](#): > > Additionally, we are the home paper for The Straight Dope, Cecil Adams’s popular question and answer column. The print column, started in 1973, has generated 5 books and currently runs in more than 35 alternative papers across North America. Because of its widespread readership, the official Web site, [StraightDope.com](http://StraightDope.com), has a national audience. > [@the Reader](#): > > We deliver about 3.5 million online ads to more than 450,000 unique visitors on average each month. This is for selling ads online. No mention of the SDMB. I bet their sales staff thinks that since the Reader is doing business locally in the Chicago Metro area, they can’t figure out an angle to make money off a guy posting from Sweden (or wherever). Maybe someone should provide them with info about how much amazon sells overseas. Or that movies actually open the same day here as it does in Chicago (at least for blockbuster type movies). Or that iTunes have operations outside the US. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/132 "2005-08-29T20:39:45Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > This is for selling ads online. No mention of the SDMB. > I bet their sales staff thinks that since the Reader is doing business locally in the Chicago Metro area, they can’t figure out an angle to make money off a guy posting from Sweden (or wherever). > Maybe someone should provide them with info about how much amazon sells overseas. Or that movies actually open the same day here as it does in Chicago (at least for blockbuster type movies). Or that iTunes have operations outside the US. You may be right. I just checked [http://www.chicagoreader.com/](http://www.chicagoreader.com/). Lots of ads on the pages of that site. Yet on [http://www.strightdope.com/](http://www.strightdope.com/) they haven’t even bothered with putting ads on Cecil’s columns. It may be the Reader management doesn’t know how to monetize a website with global readership. ---
**Author:** ![squeekster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@squeekster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeekster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/133 "2005-08-29T20:51:57Z")
Personally, I could care less if they ever turned the instant message system on, or whether it says “member” under my name, has a post count, have the ability to view a members profile, or for that matter, a search feature. But it severely burns my patooty to click on a thread title and while I’m waiting for the thread to open, I can go and wash a bunch of dishes. Yes, it happened yesterday, not to mention numerous browser time outs. My personal opinion, for what that is worth, is that it seems that the boards operational priorities are a bit askew. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/134 "2005-08-30T01:23:24Z")
> [@squeekster](#): > > But it severely burns my patooty to click on a thread title and while I’m waiting for the thread to open, I can go and wash a bunch of dishes. Yes, it happened yesterday, not to mention numerous browser time outs. . Do you have dial-up service, or DSL/Cable? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/135 "2005-08-30T02:06:41Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Note: I am having to retype this post because this lousy server timed out and ate the first post. :mad: > > . Do you have dial-up service or DSL/Cable? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/136 "2005-08-30T02:16:17Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Do you have dial-up service or DSL/Cable? DSL here. Although in theory this shouldn’t make a difference. Also, I didn’t have any bandwidth hogging P2P clients or such running at the time that might have meant my available pipe was very small. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/137 "2005-08-30T02:32:37Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > DSL here. Although in theory this shouldn’t make a difference. Also, I didn’t have any bandwidth hogging P2P clients or such running at the time that might have meant my available pipe was very small. Let me ask this in a non-confrontational way. You have to understand that I’m a medium computer-literate person. You said > [@](#): > > Note: I am having to retype this post because this lousy server timed out and ate the first post. Again, I’m not that savy about terms. Is your getting timed out a fuction of “this lousy server” or a function of your browser?(or something other than the server?) Again, I don’t know how these things work. Yes, I sometimes call up a thread, and have to sit for up to two minutes while it loads. This happens only a minimum number of times per week. I have Roadrunner cable for an ISP. I have NEVER been timed out since I have gone to a cable provider. I DO understand about dial-up connections getting timed out. I had that in 1999-2000. It sucked. What I would love to hear someone offer who knows about such things is: If you have DSL/Cable, and your post gets “timed out,” does this mean it’s the fault of the server of the Board, or your browser? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/138 "2005-08-30T02:36:14Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Note: I am having to retype this post because this lousy server timed out and ate the first post. :mad: > …snip… When the browser times out I hit back and I don’t have to retype. Sometimes by the time the post goes through on a second try, 3 other posts have snuck in leaving my post dated but this has been rare so far. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/139 "2005-08-30T03:06:14Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Is your getting timed out a fuction of “this lousy server” or a function of your browser?(or something other than the server?) This is a server issue, not a browser one. Once a post is sent by the browser to the server, the server should accept it, and the browser is out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![squeekster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@squeekster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeekster)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167/140 "2005-08-30T03:13:07Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Do you have dial-up service, or DSL/Cable? I have cable. But when I get timed out, down at the bottom of my browser (Firefox) it says "waiting for [boards.straightdope.com](http://boards.straightdope.com). The browser has “phoned” the server and is waiting for the server to “pick up the phone and answer”. I’ve tried IE6 and it doesn’t make any difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-paying-subscribers-does-this-board-currently-have/318167.md?page=8)