# How many people have died on submarines? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959 "2004-11-04T12:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D0pBOt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ab097/32.png) [@D0pBOt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D0pBOt)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959/1 "2004-11-04T12:39:36Z")
I saw Crimson Tide again the other day, and got to wondering… anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Roches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959/2 "2004-11-04T12:56:25Z")
It depends what you mean by ‘died on submarines’. What kind of submarines? Do you mean accidents only, or do you want to include wartime casualties? An accurate figure would be difficult to arrive at because there a number of Soviet submarine disasters were covered up during the Cold War, and because accurate figures for wartime casualties would be difficult to determine, especially for German and Japanese submarines. There’s a webpage about peacetime accidents [here](http://www.lostsubs.com/), but it doesn’t have casualty figures. If you mean how many people have died in Crimson Tide-like scenarios, I would guess zero. I recently saw a documentary about the US military’s relationship with Hollywood, and they refused to provide any support for Crimson Tide because it involved a scenario that, interesting as it was, was unthinkable to the extent that it was impossible. Things like that simply don’t happen. (For example, I’m sure there’s a procedure for what to do if nuclear launch orders aren’t received properly.) Submarine movies are highly formulaic. _Every_ submarine movie includes at least one scene where someone challenges the captain’s authority. Every submarine movie involves a leak, usually from a pipe, that causes some flooding; usually one character has to sacrifice himself to stop the leak, or at least swim a long distance to get to it. Every submarine movie involves a near-miss by a depth charge or torpedo. (Depth charges don’t have to hit a submarine to destroy it; many movies have them explode close enough to destroy the sub.) And so on. I can only imagine what real submariners must think about these movies (especially the parts where someone challenges the captain and the crew breaks into two factions)… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959/3 "2004-11-04T13:29:26Z")
A very few figures to go with the link above, all taken from _Death of the U.S.S. Thresher_ by Norman Polmar: 1949 _Cochino_ Deaths: 1 civilian who was aboard plus 7 crewmen from a rescue ship 1958 _Stickleback_ Deaths: 0 1963 _Thresher_ Deaths: 129 1968 _Scorpion_ Deaths: 99 1968 _K-129_ Deaths: 97 1970 _K-8_ Deaths: 52 1983 _K-429_ Deaths: 16 1986 _K-219_ Deaths: 4 1989 _Komsomolets_ Deaths: 42 2000 _Kursk_ Deaths: 118 ---
**Author:** ![Roches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959/4 "2004-11-04T14:00:03Z")
This is an estimate, but as I said before accurate figures would be impossible to find due to Soviet coverups and the fog of war. According to [this page](http://www.uboat.net/fates/losses/cause.htm), 1154 U-boats were lost in World War 2. According to [here](http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_16.html) the Germans lost 785 subs, the Japanese lost 119, the UK lost 90 and the US lost 52. The first German figure is larger than the second because it includes submarines surrendered or scuttled, which presumably would have no losses. That’s around 1050 submarines lost in combat in World War 2, so you can imagine it would be very difficult to find accurate figures for all the combatants. The Allies probably do have records; one website I found mentioned a Navy publication that documents all American submarine losses\* and includes crew lists. Accurate records for the Axis navies probably do not exist. Each of the 1050 lost boats probably carried between 40 and 70 men, all of which were probably lost in most cases. Before World War I there were a very few deaths on submarines (such as the _Hunley_ crews in the Civil War, and accidents). From 1945 to present there have been a number of accidents, and most of them involved crews that were larger than WW2 crews. Altogether I would estimate, very roughly, that around 60,000 to 100,000 people have died on submarines, probably around 75,000. (Virtually all were men, unless the Soviets allowed women on their subs.) The majority of the deaths occurred during World War 2, probably somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000. \*: from [here](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq11-1.htm): US Navy. Naval Historical Division. United States Submarine Losses, World War II. Washington: Naval History Division, 1963. OCLC 06579378 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-have-died-on-submarines/272959/5 "2004-11-04T14:23:14Z")
At least one too many: [Body of Lieut. Chris Saunders arrives in Halifax](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1097414456579_5/?hub=CTVNewsAt11). ☹☹☹☹