# How many people in this world actually believe that the Devil is a real being with powers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237 "2018-06-01T03:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/41 "2018-06-02T19:23:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And I get tired of this unsupported assumption popping up over and over again as an excuse no to engage in nuanced discussion. Unsupported? Surely you jest. The idea that Christian beliefs are stupid, as evidenced by the most stupid examples of Christian belief, is one of the most common kinds of posts on this board. Right up there with the mysteriousness of women and stuff only engineers would be interested in. No, I am not going to make a case using cites. I often pipe up with my nuances. Doesn’t make a dent. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/42 "2018-06-02T19:40:55Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Anyone who claims to take the Bible literally, or who claims that the Bible is inerrant, is claiming to believe the version of the Devil that’s written in the book of Job. I know that the claims are empty talk, but nevertheless, people are making the claims. Do even literalists take Job as being literally true? It is unconnected from the main flow of the Bible, and seems to be clearly a moral fable. Satan in Job is not at all like his other appearances - that would be a problem. But I can’t see even the most avid of Fundamentalists having much of a problem of seeing the story as kind of a parable, and not an accurate recording of something that happened. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/43 "2018-06-02T19:43:07Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I sure get tired of the people on this board thinking that all Christians are benighted literalists in the mold of willfully ignorant fundamentalism. It’s so boring. Why, one might imagine there was only one single solitary correct way of understanding the world. I can’t recall anyone here ever saying that **all** Christians are literalists, benighted or otherwise. I do recall Christians downplaying the number of Christians who are literalists, just because they are rare in their particular churches. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/44 "2018-06-02T20:04:05Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do even literalists take Job as being literally true? It is unconnected from the main flow of the Bible, and seems to be clearly a moral fable. > Satan in Job is not at all like his other appearances - that would be a problem. But I can’t see even the most avid of Fundamentalists having much of a problem of seeing the story as kind of a parable, and not an accurate recording of something that happened. Go ask them. Many MANY people claim to believe that the Bible is 100% true and to be taken 100% literally. They are lying as to what they actually believe, certainly, but it’s a claim they continue to make nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/45 "2018-06-02T20:32:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do even literalists take Job as being literally true? [A non-zero number of them do, apparently.](https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1199-can-job-be-a-true-story) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/46 "2018-06-02T20:33:37Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Many MANY people claim to believe that the Bible is 100% true and to be taken 100% literally. They are lying as to what they actually believe, certainly, but it’s a claim they continue to make nonetheless. How many of them lie about what they actually believe, and what specifically is it that they lie about? Please provide cites. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/47 "2018-06-02T21:35:46Z")
Well, I know for sure it isn’t _me_. I looked in a mirror and that birthmark definitely reads _999_. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/48 "2018-06-02T22:44:07Z")
I think “entity” is a far better word for the Devil than person." How many people do the Hajj each year? 2 Milionish? A small percentage of whom have done it before, or will repeat the experience, but as I understand it, most of them have saved for decades to get there. And isn’t there a stage of the process where they all “throw rocks at the Devil?” I don’t see how you pick up a rock on your holy pilgrimage and throw it something you don’t really believe in. I mean, I suppose if your very religious Grandpa who paid for the trip is watching, one might be forgiven for doing it anyway. But I’m betting at least 90% truly believe they are throwing a rock at an actual entity. > [@Voyager](#): > > Do even literalists take Job as being literally true? It is unconnected from the main flow of the Bible, and seems to be clearly a moral fable. > Satan in Job is not at all like his other appearances - that would be a problem. But I can’t see even the most avid of Fundamentalists having much of a problem of seeing the story as kind of a parable, and not an accurate recording of something that happened. I don’t believe it’s a literal story. But to answer your question, I have heard it argued that the story occurs before “The Fall” of Satan. He was initially one of God’s greatest angels (Lucifer, the brightest one) but questioned God’s authority and so was thrown from the firmament and became Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/49 "2018-06-02T22:58:38Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Go ask them. Many MANY people claim to believe that the Bible is 100% true and to be taken 100% literally. They are lying as to what they actually believe, certainly, but it’s a claim they continue to make nonetheless. I don’t think many of them believe that The Prodigal Son story actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/50 "2018-06-02T23:00:30Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I don’t believe it’s a literal story. > > But to answer your question, I have heard it argued that the story occurs before “The Fall” of Satan. He was initially one of God’s greatest angels (Lucifer, the brightest one) but questioned God’s authority and so was thrown from the firmament and became Satan. I thought about this point, but since Satan had clearly fallen before God created Adam and Eve, I don’t know how he could not have fallen years afterward when the Job story happened. In Christian lore, that is. In Jewish lore, the snake was only a snake. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/51 "2018-06-02T23:06:47Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > [A non-zero number of them do, apparently.](https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1199-can-job-be-a-true-story) I have hardly seen a better example of the Spiderman fallacy. > [@](#): > > First, Job reads like history. It talks about a man named Job. He lived in the land of Uz. It relates details about his family, his life, and his suffering. It communicates to us his friends’ interest in his suffering, and the spiritual struggling with which Job dealt. > > There is nothing about the content that ought to cause us to reject its historicity. It is not presented as figurative or symbolic. It is set forth as what actually happened. We’re off to see the wizard The wonderful wizard of Uz. But I wonder if this is the mainstream view. This clown probably thinks the parables are literally true also, and is unaware of people finding moral lessons in fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/52 "2018-06-02T23:11:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I thought about this point, but since Satan had clearly fallen before God created Adam and Eve, I don’t know how he could not have fallen years afterward when the Job story happened. > In Christian lore, that is. In Jewish lore, the snake was only a snake. That was no ordinary snake. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/53 "2018-06-03T01:04:21Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > How many of them lie about what they actually believe, and what specifically is it that they lie about? > > Please provide cites. Bible literalists believe that Jesus was born in two different places that are three hours’ walk from each other. Bible literalists believe that Quirinius was governor of Syria at the same time that Herod was in power, when in fact Herod had been dead for ten years by the beginning of Quirinius’s governorship. There are Bible literalists; that was never in dispute. QED. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/54 "2018-06-03T01:47:51Z")
I am Jewish. Some rabbis believe Devil exists, others do not. To many people, addictive drugs are the Devil. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/55 "2018-06-03T01:54:44Z")
I understand the idea that drugs/alcohol can be “the Devil.” But what I am talking about is an actual creature, an entity that may or may not have a physical body but definitely has _motivation_ behind it, like a malevolent troll who basically wants to fuck up humanity as much as possible. Do a lot of Rabbis actually believe in this concept of the Devil? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/56 "2018-06-03T01:54:51Z")
Rambam – a great medieval Rabbi thought that Devil is a metaphor. Other rabbis believe that there are many many demons. Opium overdose costs [tens of thousands of lives](https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates) each year in USA. Maybe it is Devil’s Brew. ---
**Author:** ![xcalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/5daacb/32.png) [@xcalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xcalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/57 "2018-06-03T02:33:48Z")
Perhaps this isn’t that relevant to the conversation, but to clean things . . . If you were to literally follow the Bible there’s a few things that might be surprising to you 1. Satan is not Lucifer. 2. Lucifer isn’t even Lucifer, that is the fallen angel is not named. 3. For most of the biblical story Satan only acts when instructed by god, not independently. God literally tells Satan to go torture ppl. 4. Lucifer just means light bringer and is used in many different contexts, Jesus is even called Lucifer. 5. Satan isn’t just God’s personal torturer, he is the district attorney for heavens court. 6. Satan is kicked out for prosecutorial misconduct 🙂 7. The snake in the Adam creation account is not Satan, or Lucifer, or the devil. He’s just a snake. Dirty sneks Both Satan and Lucifer are words in ancient Hebrew, not personal nouns. (Satan means adversary,accuser). A great problem with modern interpretations is that ancient Hebrew didn’t have the concept of uppercase letters. So you’ll see the word Satan pop up all over the Torah. But wait there is a Satan. Yep. Early on in the chronology of the stories god sends unspecified angels down to earth to fuck with humans, they are often described as satan as they acting as someone’s adversary, this happens a lot. Later on In the story telling god starts using the same angel each time to do gods dirty work. The authors turn satan into a personal pronoun by preceding it with Ha-, so Ha-satan. This translates closest to English as calling the angel “The Satan”, kinda like a comic book villain, “The Adversary”. Lucifer is basically a big fat literary allusion. In the cultural literacy of the time the term Lucifer could refer to a bevy of meanings depending on the context. 1. It could be used poetically to describe a person bringing the light. Eg. calling Jesus Lucifer for bringing light to the world. 2. It can have an Icarus style meaning referring to many different myths where the Lucifer reaches to high but burns out early. This is because Lucifer was the name used for the morning star which was the first star you could see near dawn that heralds the sun, only to disappear when the sun blots it out. 3. It can refer to the god of evil because many early people thought the morning star was the god of evil (as opposed to the goddess of love ). If you start mixing and matching these meanings you can anticipate the impending hijinx. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/58 "2018-06-03T05:59:19Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Nor do I know how you would reconcile the omnipotence of God with the existence of a Devil, must less the existence of evil. Free will can’t exist unless more than one choice is possible. For some reason that’s obvious to me and official doctrine to the RCC, but you’re certainly not the only person who seems to confuse God being omnipotent with him being a control freak. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/59 "2018-06-03T06:21:23Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Bible literalists believe that Jesus was born in two different places that are three hours’ walk from each other. Bible literalists believe that Quirinius was governor of Syria at the same time that Herod was in power, when in fact Herod had been dead for ten years by the beginning of Quirinius’s governorship. > > There are Bible literalists; that was never in dispute. QED. You have shown inconsistencies in the Bible. You have _not_ shown that Biblical literalists lie about their beliefs. Care to try again? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237/60 "2018-06-03T06:22:31Z")
> [@xcalibre](#): > > Both Satan and Lucifer are words in ancient Hebrew Lucifer is Latin, not Hebrew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-in-this-world-actually-believe-that-the-devil-is-a-real-being-with-powers/815237.md?page=4)