# How many people knew that the US's national motto is "In God We Trust"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550 "2004-06-15T21:54:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/1 "2004-06-15T21:54:52Z")
I just learned this today, reading another thread. I was taught, as a child, that the national motto is _E Pluribus Unum_–“Out of Many, One”–even though I was born 7 years after our fucking government made the change. Is anyone else as horrifically offended by this as I am? Why has this been allowed to stand? Why hasn’t the ACLU been working to change this, instead of more simply removing it from the currency? This is the most infuriatingly \*sad \* thing I’ve heard in a long time. I officially have almost no hope left for this country. It IS Bush’s world, after all. What the hell am I doing here? ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/2 "2004-06-15T21:56:20Z")
1. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/3 "2004-06-15T21:57:48Z")
I queried about this in the thread you mention, but I seem to remember that BOTH phrases are our national motto. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/4 "2004-06-15T22:05:10Z")
I, personally, am doing my part by using a Sharpie on every bill that comes into my greedy little paws. So far, nobody has refused to take money that has had the motto “In God We Trust” blacked or greened out. It’s a small thing, but it gives me some satisfaction. If you wish to join me in my futile fight against the US Mint, please be aware that a black Sharpie covers the words better. A green Sharpie, while more aesthetically pleasing, allows shadows of the words to show through. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/5 "2004-06-15T22:12:54Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > I, personally, am doing my part by using a Sharpie on every bill that comes into my greedy little paws. So far, nobody has refused to take money that has had the motto “In God We Trust” blacked or greened out. > > It’s a small thing, but it gives me some satisfaction. > > If you wish to join me in my futile fight against the US Mint, please be aware that a black Sharpie covers the words better. A green Sharpie, while more aesthetically pleasing, allows shadows of the words to show through. Yep. You’ve got them on the run now. **lissener** , despite the vast majority of posters on this board agreeing with you, I think you’ll find that the vast majority of the country is not offended by this, nor is it illegal. It is a classic example of ceremonial deism, and does not offend the Establishment Clause. Were you to argue this point in front of the Supreme COurt someday, I hope you realize that every session of that venerable institution opens with, _inter alia_, “God save the United States of America, and God save this honorable Court.” Get over it. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/6 "2004-06-15T22:27:42Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > It IS Bush’s world, after all. What the hell am I doing here? Well, let’s see. The phrase “In God We Trust” was established as the national motto in [1956](http://www.usscouts.org/flag/sealmotto.html). Bush was 10 years old at the time and in all probability was remarkably uninterested in the passage of that legislation. So what \* are \* you doing here? Not making sense, surely. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/7 "2004-06-15T22:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Is anyone else as horrifically offended by this as I am? I’m not. And I’m not even religious. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/8 "2004-06-15T22:37:06Z")
**lissener** wrote > [@](#): > > Is anyone else as horrifically offended by this as I am? > … > This is the most infuriatingly sad thing I’ve heard in a long time. I officially have almost no hope left for this country. Truly I yearn for your life and your simple problems. Truly. **Lynn Bodoni** wrote > [@](#): > > I, personally, am doing my part by using a Sharpie on every bill that comes into my greedy little paws. So far, nobody has refused to take money that has had the motto “In God We Trust” blacked or greened out. Truly I yearn for just half of the spare time you find on your hands. I’m a pretty strong atheist btw. and I can’t imagine why you feel so strongly about this particular issue. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/9 "2004-06-15T22:38:29Z")
I suppose I might care less if I really tried, but I don’t care enough to try. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/10 "2004-06-15T22:45:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It is a classic example of ceremonial deism, and does not offend the Establishment Clause. While I’ve no doubt the courts would (and quite possibly have) rule in just this fashion, this just isn’t true. A classic example of ceremonial deism would be something like Canada’s head of state also being the official head of the Church of England. _That_ is merely traditional and ceremonial, in that the Queen doesn’t even pretend to have any true authority in Canada, or over the C of E, but the institution of the monarchy continues purely on an ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ basis. Of course, this couldn’t be called ceremonial deism, per se, but ceremonial Anglicanism sounds awkward. 🙂 IGWT, on the other hand, was instituted only a few decades ago, and was explicitly intended to mark out the US as a Christian country, as opposed to those godless commie bastards. That’s neither ceremonial nor deist, and certainly not a classic example of either. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/11 "2004-06-15T22:47:08Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > I, personally, am doing my part by using a Sharpie on every bill that comes into my greedy little paws. So far, nobody has refused to take money that has had the motto “In God We Trust” blacked or greened out. > > It’s a small thing, but it gives me some satisfaction. > > If you wish to join me in my futile fight against the US Mint, please be aware that a black Sharpie covers the words better. A green Sharpie, while more aesthetically pleasing, allows shadows of the words to show through. Heh, I do this too. (I’m such a rebel! :rolleyes: ) While noone’s refused my money, I’ve noticed that a lot of people are eager to get rid of these bills first. Just doing my part to stimulate the economy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/12 "2004-06-15T23:50:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bricker_ > … nor is it illegal. It is a classic example of ceremonial deism, and does not offend the Establishment Clause. Out idle curiousity, what Supreme Court case decided that? ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/13 "2004-06-16T01:55:57Z")
I find it offensive when I think about it. I try to forget that many in this country think I (as an atheist) am evil, depraved, and in no way a good American. …and they use this stupid religious graffitti as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/14 "2004-06-16T02:08:22Z")
I’m just curious as to how many people would be pissed if it were changed to “In Allh we trust” or perhaps “In satan we trust”. I’d say “In Cthulhu we trust” but then everybody here would jump on the bandwagon. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/15 "2004-06-16T02:33:23Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, let’s see. The phrase “In God We Trust” was established as the national motto in [1956](http://www.usscouts.org/flag/sealmotto.html). It’s Eisenhower’s world after all… And **Bashere** , I can’t find any Supreme Court case dealing with the motto, but the 10th Circuit in Gaylor v. US, said that the motto’s: > [@](#): > > primary effect is not to advance religion; instead, it is a form of “ceremonial deism” which through historical usage and ubiquity cannot be reasonably understood to convey government approval of religious belief. The 9th Circuit ruled similarly in Aronow v US, but I can’t find a copy of the actual decision to quote it… I’m led to understand by Snopes that the 9th circuit at one point said about the motto, but I don’t know if that’s Aronow or some other case: > [@](#): > > “It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency, ‘In God We Trust’, has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of a patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise” ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/16 "2004-06-16T02:44:08Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I’m just curious as to how many people would be pissed if it were changed to “In Allh we trust” or perhaps “In satan we trust”. False analogy. It doesn’t say “In Jehovah we trust” or “In Jesus we trust”; it says the much less Christiancentric “In God we trust”. The phrase does not exclude the other two major western religions, nor Hinduism (which believes in the “Divine Absolut” - though the Absolut takes on many forms), nor many other religions. _Most_ religions have some concept of God. The vagueness of the phrase was obviosly intended to be inclusive. It could be said to exclude Buddhism, as that religion is non-theistic, but I seriously doubt the motto was intended to persecute Buddhists. I’ll grant that it may make some atheists uncomfortable, but your analogy/question refered to specific figures in specific religions and was therefore inept. So, **Reeder** , your leftist kneejerk here is as ill considered as ever. All relevant arguments for and against the motto need to be based on whether or not it violates the establishment clause, not on bad analogies juxtaposing religous figures or on an imagined bias towards Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/17 "2004-06-16T02:51:13Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I just learned this today, reading another thread. > > I was taught, as a child, that the national motto is _E Pluribus Unum_–“Out of Many, One”–even though I was born 7 years after our fucking government made the change. > > Is anyone else as horrifically offended by this as I am? > > Why has this been allowed to stand? > > Why hasn’t the ACLU been working to change this, instead of more simply removing it from the currency? > > This is the most infuriatingly \*sad \* thing I’ve heard in a long time. I officially have almost no hope left for this country. > > It IS Bush’s world, after all. What the hell am I doing here? What the fuck? Once again… What the fuck? I get the impression that some people here have huge gaps in their lives and sit around thinking up stupid shit to be pissed off about. \*This is the most infuriatingly \*sad \* thing I’ve heard in a long time. \* This is the most infuriatingly whiny, sad-assed pathetic post I’ve seen in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![jastu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@jastu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jastu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/18 "2004-06-16T02:58:48Z")
**How many people knew that the US’s national motto is “In God We Trust”?** IANA American but I have been receiving emails about this subject for years, mostly from Christians angry about the objection to this motto. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/19 "2004-06-16T02:59:22Z")
I guess it should be pointed out that \*\* if you just discovered today \*\* that we have a national motto, and you’re presumably no longer in grade school, then our national motto must not be particularly influential and certainly doesn’t have the force of law, or even the force of a your typical advertising slogan. So if it’s an offical endorsement of religion, it’s a mighty feeble one, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550/20 "2004-06-16T03:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > **LynnBodoni** said: > I, personally, am doing my part by using a Sharpie on every bill that comes into my greedy little paws. So far, nobody has refused to take money that has had the motto “In God We Trust” blacked or greened out. Please don’t smite me for this, because it is meant to be tongue in cheek: We’ve all been told not to discuss present drug use on this forum because it’s illegal in the US, and we’ve been told not to discuss our filesharing activities because it’s illegal, but it’s perfectly OK to tell everyone that you’re violating a federal law by defacing money and call it ‘doing your part’? 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-that-the-uss-national-motto-is-in-god-we-trust/250550.md?page=2)