# How many people still believe in Sebastianism (the belief that King Sebastian of Portugal, MIA since 1578, will return as a Messiah to save Portugal)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597 "2024-05-15T18:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TJEckleburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@TJEckleburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJEckleburg)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/1 "2024-05-15T18:18:18Z")
> **[Sebastianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastianism)** > > Sebastianism (Portuguese: Sebastianismo) is a Portuguese messianic myth, based on the belief that King Sebastian of Portugal, who disappeared in the battle of Alcácer Quibir, would reappear and return to Portugal at some, critical, point in the future. The belief gained momentum after an interpretation by priest António Vieira of the second chapter of the Book of Daniel (Daniel 2) and the Book of Revelation. In Brazil the most important manifestation of Sebastianism took place in the context of t... I just learned about this the other day. I love learning about stuff like this that I’ve never heard of before 😄 (it’s a guilty pleasure of mine). My thread title and the first few lines of the Wikipedia article sum it up nicely, so I won’t rehash any of it; however, my question is, how many people still believe in Sebastianism today (I’m willing to bet it’s a greater number than zero), and do those believers spread their faith or make Facebook posts or Youtube videos about it to get the word out? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/2 "2024-05-15T18:28:57Z")
Don’t know about that, but I think Salazar may have _thought_ he was the second coming. He set Portugal back about 30 years, or basically froze it in time in the 30s. They were hopelessly behind the curve when he finally croaked, and it took them a very long time to come up to modern standards and ideas. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/3 "2024-05-15T19:02:51Z")
That’s ridiculous, who would believe that? Everyone knows the true monarch who will return to save his nation in its direst hour of need is King Arthur who is sleeping beneath Glastonbury Tor. Also _coughs_ points at pretty everything that has happened in England in the last decade… Hey Artie, sure you aren’t sleeping in? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/4 "2024-05-15T19:12:31Z")
> How many people still believe in Sebastianism (the belief that King Sebastian of Portugal, MIA since 1578, will return as a Messiah to save Portugal)? I’m going to go out on a limb and call it at somewhere between zero and three. > [@griffin1977](#): > > Everyone knows the true monarch who will return to save his nation in its direst hour of need is King Arthur who is sleeping beneath Glastonbury Tor. > > Also _coughs_ points at pretty everything that has happened in England in the last decade… Hey Artie, sure you aren’t sleeping in? Arthur was the original Brexit advocate, so I’m not sure that he’s the hero that you want him to be. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/5 "2024-05-15T19:20:45Z")
There was also a belief that the Emperor Nero would return, and fix the anarchy that occurred during the Year of the Four Emperors. I’m not sure I’d be keen on that idea. > **[Nero Redivivus legend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Redivivus_legend)** > > The Nero Redivivus legend was a belief popular during the last part of the 1st century that the Roman emperor Nero would return after his death in 68 AD. The legend was a common belief as late as the 5th century. The belief was either the result or cause of several imposters who posed as Nero leading rebellions. > At least three Nero impostors emerged leading rebellions. The first, who sang and played the cithara or lyre and whose face was similar to that of the dead emperor, appeared in 69 during... ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/6 "2024-05-15T19:30:10Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > That’s ridiculous, who would believe that? Everyone knows the true monarch who will return to save his nation in its direst hour of need is King Arthur who is sleeping beneath Glastonbury Tor. No, no, no, first Kaiser Barbarossa (Frederick I) will wake up and return from the Kyffhäuser mountains to unite Germany! (wait, did anybody see him around Nov 9 1989?) > **[The sleeping Barbarossa in the Kyffhäuser Mountains](https://www.outdooractive.com/en/story/kyffhaeuser/the-sleeping-barbarossa-in-the-kyffhaeuser-mountains/28250099/)** > > “The ancient Barbarossa, by magic spell is bound, the old Frederic the Kaiser, in a castle underground.” Friedrich ... ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/7 "2024-05-15T19:55:14Z")
There are hundreds of thousands of Rastafarians today, on the other hand. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/8 "2024-05-15T20:07:50Z")
The King Asleep in the Mountain is a widespread trope > **[King asleep in mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_asleep_in_mountain)** > > The king asleep in mountain (D 1960.2 in Stith Thompson's motif index system) is a prominent folklore trope found in many folktales and legends. Thompson termed it as the Kyffhäuser type. Some other designations are king in the mountain, king under the mountain, sleeping hero, or Bergentrückung ("mountain rapture"). > Examples include the legends of King Arthur, Fionn mac Cumhaill, Charlemagne, Ogier the Dane, King David, Frederick Barbarossa at Kyffhäuser, Genghis Khan, Constantine XI Palaiologos... some surprisingly modern variations: > [Alexander Suvorov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Suvorov) ([Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)), Russian generalissimo, sleeps in a deep cave where prayer is heard and icon lamp burns. The legend says Suvorov will come back to save his country from a mortal danger.[[18]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_asleep_in_mountain#cite_note-18) > > [Emperor Norton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton) is claimed by several defunct civil rights groups to have been destined to return to the US when the unity of the Republic is at its nadir.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_] > > Some adherents of the [QAnon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon) conspiracy theory believe that American figure [John F. Kennedy Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_Jr.) will one day return to purge corruption from the American government.[[23]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_asleep_in_mountain#cite_note-23) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/9 "2024-05-15T20:51:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m going to go out on a limb and call it at somewhere between zero and three. Probably more in Portugal, but I learned something new today. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/10 "2024-05-15T21:37:01Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@griffin1977](#): > > > > That’s ridiculous, who would believe that? Everyone knows the true monarch who will return to save his nation in its direst hour of need is King Arthur who is sleeping beneath Glastonbury Tor. > > No, no, no, first Kaiser Barbarossa (Frederick I) will wake up and return from the Kyffhäuser mountains to unite Germany! (wait, did anybody see him around Nov 9 1989?) Heretics! The one true messiah is Hong Xiuquan, Heavenly King and brother of Jesus! ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/11 "2024-05-15T21:54:21Z")
I spent several weeks in Portugal last year and heard nothing about Sebastianism. Then again, their crackpots don’t seem to be compelled to share their weird beliefs with complete strangers like Americans do. ---
**Author:** ![TJEckleburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@TJEckleburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJEckleburg)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/12 "2024-05-15T23:13:34Z")
And don’t forget about John Frum: > **[John Frum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum)** > > John Frum (also called Jon Frum, John Brum, and John Prum) is a figure associated with cargo cults on the island of Tanna in Vanuatu. He is often depicted as an American World War II serviceman who will bring wealth and prosperity to the people if they follow him. Quoting David Attenborough's report of an encounter: "'E look like you. 'E got white face. 'E tall man. 'E live 'long South America." > In the 1990s, there were still reportedly over 5,000 members of the John Frum movement. Belief in Joh... ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/13 "2024-05-16T06:24:31Z")
There’s always Drake’s Drum [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KLAZ_pSjsLk/maxresdefault.jpg "Songs of the Sea, Op. 91: I. Drake's Drum") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLAZ_pSjsLk) ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/14 "2024-05-17T01:36:13Z")
I’m partial to this one: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/bezvfTCnECs/maxresdefault.jpg "Drake's Drum") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezvfTCnECs) ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/15 "2024-05-19T18:02:05Z")
> [@TJEckleburg](#): > > And don’t forget about John Frum If we talk about John Frum, we must at least mention the [Prince Philip Movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_movement#). Although I’m not sure they’ve since changed the doctrine of their faith towards expecting Philip’s return. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/16 "2024-05-19T18:25:19Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Although I’m not sure they’ve since changed the doctrine of their faith towards expecting Philip’s return From the article: > Kirk Huffman, an anthropologist familiar with the group, said that after their period of mourning the group would probably transfer their veneration to [Prince Charles](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_III) (now King Charles III), The _probably_ there is pretty scathing. I imagine KC got a reply “thank you for applying to be supreme divine being of our cult. Unfortunately after careful consideration of your resume we have decided to go with ‘prince Philip is just sleeping beneath windsor castle and will return in our hour of need’. wishing you all the best in your future endeavors” ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-still-believe-in-sebastianism-the-belief-that-king-sebastian-of-portugal-mia-since-1578-will-return-as-a-messiah-to-save-portugal/1001597/17 "2024-05-19T19:39:05Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > There are hundreds of thousands of Rastafarians today, on the other hand. That strikes me as the most obvious parallel. Rastafarianism is a religion that developed in Jamaica in the 1930s. They believe that Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia was the second coming of Jesus. You can read about it in [Rastafari - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari) .