# How many people to land a plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410 "2010-06-16T11:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/1 "2010-06-16T11:53:18Z")
In [this news tidbit,](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37717114/ns/travel-news/) a flight attendant who also happened to be a licensed commercial pilot helped the pilot land a plane after the copilot fell ill. OK, so what if the flight attendant hadn’t been a licensed pilot? I thought a major point of having a pilot and copilot is that if one of them gets sick or dies during the flight, the other one is capable of landing the plane independently. Can a pilot and flight engineer safely land a big commercial jet (e.g. 747) by themselves? Can a single pilot do it solo (without even a flight engineer)? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/2 "2010-06-16T13:46:28Z")
Anyone can land a plane; the tricky bit is being able to so such that you can walk away afterwards. 😃 Actually, with the advent of internet access from planes, I wonder how long it will be before cockpits have an ‘Engage remote pilot’ switch for emergencies? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/3 "2010-06-16T14:08:24Z")
Four to hold the wings steady and Chuck Norris to push the ground up to the wheels. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/4 "2010-06-16T14:09:25Z")
Modern planes are so sophisticated, large commercial passenger planes especially, that they can actually (mostly) takeoff, fly, and land themselves. Many pilots choose to do these things themselves, but in many other cases the pilots are just there to taxi the plane on/off the runway and to back up the auto-pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/5 "2010-06-16T14:14:51Z")
I’m willing to bet that he let her handle the radios, checklists, clearances and stuff. She probably didn’t actually touch the controls. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/6 "2010-06-16T14:40:43Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I’m willing to bet that he let her handle the radios, checklists, clearances and stuff. She probably didn’t actually touch the controls. No doubt, but was her presence necessary at all? Could the pilot and engineer have taken care of all this stuff by themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/7 "2010-06-16T14:52:57Z")
Might it be company-policy to see if there is another ~qualified person on-board in such a situation? Kind of a “ask around in case someone can be of decent assistance” checkbox in the company’s go-to checklist/manual? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/8 "2010-06-16T14:54:15Z")
FWIW, a copilot is required for aircraft over 12,500 pounds gross weight and for aircraft that were certified for two-pilot operations. I think it’s in FAR Part 61, but I don’t have time to look for it now. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/9 "2010-06-16T15:13:23Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Modern planes are so sophisticated, large commercial passenger planes especially, that they can actually (mostly) takeoff, fly, and land themselves. Many pilots choose to do these things themselves, but in many other cases the pilots are just there to taxi the plane on/off the runway and to back up the auto-pilot. As my great-great-grandmother used to say at times like this: [Bullshit](http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2009/11/19/askthepilot342/index.html). From the linked article on [salon.com](http://salon.com), written by an actual pilot, one [Patrick Smith:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Smith_%28columnist%29) > [@](#): > > The vast majority of touchdowns are [fully manual]. Most jetliners are certified for automatic landings – “autolands” in pilot-speak – but in practice they are rare. In any case, the fine print of setting up and managing one of these landings is something I could talk about all day. If it were as easy as pressing a button, I wouldn’t need to practice them twice a year in the simulator, or need to consistently review those tabbed, highlighted pages in my manuals. It’s there if you need it – for that foggy arrival in Buenos Aires, with the visibility sitting at zero – but it’s anything but simple. Guess what: An automatic landing is, in most respects, more challenging, more complicated and more work-intensive than a manual one. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/10 "2010-06-16T15:15:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > FWIW, a copilot is required for aircraft over 12,500 pounds gross weight and for aircraft that were certified for two-pilot operations. I think it’s in FAR Part 61, but I don’t have time to look for it now. Over 12,500 pounds requires a type rating, but not necessarily a co-pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/11 "2010-06-16T15:27:26Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Modern planes are so sophisticated, large commercial passenger planes especially, that they can actually (mostly) takeoff, fly, and land themselves. Many pilots choose to do these things themselves, but in many other cases the pilots are just there to taxi the plane on/off the runway and to back up the auto-pilot. I know I already responded to this, but the sheer silliness of the statement cries for additional refutation. [Here’s an account of a passenger-pilot being obliged to land a turboprop after the actual pilot died](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/13/florida.plane.emergency/index.html). A quote: [QUOTE=well, obviously the CNN link above] White later told the Naples Daily News he has a pilot’s license and about 130 hours experience flying a single engine Cessna, but had never flown the larger, faster King Air. The difference, experts said, is not as simple as driving a different model of car. A turboprop multi-engine, Wallace told CNN, “probably lands at a faster speed than he’s ever flown a single-engine plane before.” \ Two air traffic controllers worked to help him **disengage the autopilot** , as other controllers stepped in to lighten their workload. “Keep it coming around when you can … the turn looks good, very good sir,” a controller said. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. Note that he had to DISENGAGE the autopilot to land the plane safely; not ENGAGE it. [And here’s Patrick Smith’s comment on the incident](http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2009/05/01/askthepilot318/index.html): [QUOTE=Ask the Pilot on [salon.com](http://salon.com)] What sound like minor tasks would be serious challenges to a novice. “Configuring the plane for landing” seems simple enough, but actually it’s a complicated ballet coordinating the deployment of flaps and landing gear at various intervals depending on speed and altitude. Deactivating the autopilot? If you’ve never used or seen an autopilot, how would you know how to turn one off, let alone operate its numerous functions? Not to mention, the touchdown itself would have been completely different from anything this pilot had experienced – the speed, the control sensations, the visual perspective. All of it. Sure, all airplanes share vestigial similarities, but operationally they can be very, very different. The devil is in the details. [/QUOTE] Real-life aviation is not Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/12 "2010-06-16T15:29:49Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Over 12,500 pounds requires a type rating, but not necessarily a co-pilot. Would you mind seeing if you can find the FAR that specifies required aircrew? I think it’s Part 61, but it might be Part 23 or 25. IIRC, you fly heavies and undoubtedly have more knowledge of this than I. As a private pilot, I just skim over those parts. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/13 "2010-06-16T15:30:24Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > No doubt, but was her presence necessary at all? Could the pilot and engineer have taken care of all this stuff by themselves? Engineer? There is, generally speaking, no more flight engineer. I don’t know the exact date, but it has been a long time since a U.S. carrier had a three person cockpit. Could the pilot land on his own? Yes. But having another pilot step in to help would increase safety. The flight attendant was probably able to read checklists and keep a visual lookout. Its kind of surprising that there wasn’t another pilot deadheading. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/14 "2010-06-16T15:39:54Z")
Meh. Perhaps I WAG’ed before getting the full story, but the fact remains that **large high-capacity airliners** , unlike the multiprop plane in the above example, are [fully capable of landing themselves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland) if need be. Thus, the answer to the OP’s question would be potentially 0. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/15 "2010-06-16T16:13:09Z")
> [@howye](#): > > Could the pilot land on his own? Yes. But having another pilot step in to help would increase safety. The flight attendant was probably able to read checklists and keep a visual lookout. Its kind of surprising that there wasn’t another pilot deadheading. The [Chicago Tribune’s article](http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/flight-attendant-co-pilot-ohare-attendant-helps-lands-plane.html) has more info - no other pilot on board, her license was out of date but at least she did have some experience. She changed the altimeter settings a few times, dealt with the radio and air-traffic control. The article did make the “plane can land itself” comment but also noted that landing in Chicago is busy enough to make two people up there very useful. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/16 "2010-06-16T17:09:07Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > No doubt, but was her presence necessary at all? Could the pilot and engineer have taken care of all this stuff by themselves? She’s there in case the pilot _also_ ate the fish. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/17 "2010-06-16T17:13:52Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > She’s there in case the pilot _also_ ate the fish. Noooo…not Captain Oveur! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/18 "2010-06-16T17:26:18Z")
How does a licensed commercial pilot end up being a flight attendant? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/19 "2010-06-16T17:29:03Z")
A. A flight attendant takes flying lessons, likes it, and keeps picking up hours and ratings, but doesn’t want to become an airline pilot. Or B. Somebody who wants to work in the airlines notices that pilots’ pay is crap but there is a huge backlog of applicants anyway, and decides the cabin is a better place to work than the cockpit. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410/20 "2010-06-16T17:37:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > How does a licensed commercial pilot end up being a flight attendant? 😕 To expand on what **ElvisL1ves** said, a Commercial certificate is not an Air Transport Pilot certificate. A Commercial certificate holder might be towing banners or taking people on sightseeing flights, or may be an Instructor or an ag pilot or fish spotter, or a corporate pilot or bush pilot… Some people have ‘real jobs’ and fly in their spare time. A Commercial certificate offers the opportunity to make some money out of a hobby. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-to-land-a-plane/543410.md?page=2)