# How many people who are convicted of crimes are innocent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 19, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975 "2003-06-19T18:23:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/21 "2003-06-20T21:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pravnik \* > \*\*I looked **Trinopus’** cite up. The cases are American executions ranging from 1915 to 1987. There are way, way too many cases to name, but for the most part it lists people who were exonerated while on death row (or in prison in cases in which the defendant didn’t get the death penalty although they could have) or who were executed only to have exculpatory evidence turn up later. \*\* OK, thanks- but those who were “exonerated while on death row” are hardly “innocents who were executed”, right? And “exculpatory evidence turning up later”? How clear was this evidence? DNA tests showing the executed wasn’t the guy? Or some con saying he heard someone saying that they really did it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/22 "2003-06-20T21:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien \* > \*\*1\> **DrDeth** , > There is absolutely no case where someone has been exonerated _in the eyes of the law_ after being executed, not since the US resumed capital punishment in 1976 - because as far as the courts are concerned, a case is closed with the execution. You simply cannot go to the courts with such a claim, not even if you are a relative of the executed and would like to retest evidence to clear his/her name (ref. Robert Coleman case). > > 2\>In fact, as far as I know, in all of the cases from before 1976 where executed have indeed been exonerated, this was done by the Governors, not by the courts. > > 3\>I would like to add the following two points to your list: > 6. _All_ of the evidence was found to be wrong, and the suspect had none or little motive > 7. Defendant convicted soleby based on circumstantial evidence, new evidence indicating defendants innocence is found too late > > 4\>And **DrDeth** , please keep to the facts. I said 105 persons (give and take!) has been realeased from deathrow - and I said that some say many of those were guilty, others say none were guilty. You step up and declare that 4 or 5 was innocent, and the rest guilty, without any cite or reason. You just picked a number, didn’t you? . \*\* 1\> True- not _legally_ exonerated. But there are civil trials, and the good old “court of public opinion”. If, for instance, there was someone executed, and afterwards his family got ahold of the evidence and send it off to a private DNA lab, and it turned out that the blood which was used as evidence against our “murderer” as it was his blood type- did not have his DNA- AND, that DNA matched a known killer in the area- then I’d have to say that- even without an _official_ finding- the man executed was innocent. But I have not seen any thing like this since 1976. 2\> Could something like this not happen \*after \* 1976? 3\> Your category is very close to my category 4, and your category 7 is basicly my category 5. 1. No, NO, **NO!**. I _asked_ “of the 105, how many were in category 5? 4?” I was not guessing the numbers of innocents or guilty, I was asking how many of those whose convictions were overturned fit into each of my categories? Because- those in category 1 were certainly NOT “innocent” even though their convictions may have been overturned. I assume we can all agree to that? Those in category “5” are those we’d all agree were “innocents”, right? The relative “innocence” (as opposed to not-proven-guilty) of categories 2\>4 can be debated. And, yes, that might make a good “GD”. Still and all- although it is clear some dudes on Death Row have been exonerated, and doubt has been cast upon the guilt of some who were actually executed- I have not seen any of those which I would put into “category 5” where the executions occurred in the USA since 1976. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/23 "2003-06-20T21:35:10Z")
It varies. None, so far as I can tell, involve anything recent where a man was cleared post-execution by DNA evidence. Most of it appears to be evidence that would have helped the condemmned had it been admitted in trial, or would establish that person’s innocence if believed. A couple of cases from the early part of the 20th century are disturbing (deathbed confessions from the “real killer”, two men sentenced to die on the basis of a supposed confession overheard by a convict in spite of both men’s protestation that only one of them was the killer) and a couple of questionable inclusions that are still widely debated, like Bruno Hauptman and the Sacco and Vanzetti trial. Mostly the anecdotes are about executions in which the persons guilt was suspect (in some circumstances extremely suspect if the writer’s account is accurate), but as far as I can tell no 100%incontrovertable evidence that an innocent man has definitely been executed in America. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/24 "2003-06-20T21:41:29Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/25 "2003-06-20T22:34:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*1\> True- not _legally_ exonerated. But there are civil trials, and the good old “court of public opinion”. If, for instance, there was someone executed, and afterwards his family got ahold of the evidence and send it off to a private DNA lab, and it turned out that the blood which was used as evidence against our “murderer” as it was his blood type- did not have his DNA- AND, that DNA matched a known killer in the area- then I’d have to say that- even without an _official_ finding- the man executed was innocent. But I have not seen any thing like this since 1976. > > 2\> Could something like this not happen \*after \* 1976? > > 3\> Your category is very close to my category 4, and your category 7 is basicly my category 5. > > 1. No, NO, **NO!**. I _asked_ “of the 105, how many were in category 5? 4?” I was not guessing the numbers of innocents or guilty, I was asking how many of those whose convictions were overturned fit into each of my categories? Because- those in category 1 were certainly NOT “innocent” even though their convictions may have been overturned. I assume we can all agree to that? Those in category “5” are those we’d all agree were “innocents”, right? The relative “innocence” (as opposed to not-proven-guilty) of categories 2\>4 can be debated. And, yes, that might make a good “GD”. > > Still and all- although it is clear some dudes on Death Row have been exonerated, and doubt has been cast upon the guilt of some who were actually executed- I have not seen any of those which I would put into “category 5” where the executions occurred in the USA since 1976. \*\* To your 1-4 above: 1. a) Agreed. Noone has been legally exonerated, so whoever claims otherwise is mistaken, even if it’s in the GD b) No, the evidence is destroyed after an execution, various attempts to have such evidence retested has been opposed by the prosecution and failed in court c) I think the “public court of opinion” only will accept DNA evidence, see 1b 2. I’m not involved in the DP debate, but have followed the issue for a few years. Given the high number of questionable cases since 1976 it’s extremely likely that someone innocent has been executed (see my example in the previous post and x 50) 3. Fair enough, I would only like to point out that the number of people convicted on circimstantial evidence, jailhouse snitches, appearant misconduct or testing which today is labeled highly inaccurate (for instance comparing hair under a microscope) is very high, and it still happens much more frequently that most people tend to believe. 4. :smack: :smack: :smack: Sorry about that. Anyway, you’ll have to have a look at the list yourself. But I disagree that 5 (DNA) is the only option for innocence. “DNA-evidence” is not the sure thing people think it is. A complete DNA-sequence, yes, DNA-evidence, no. And reading **pravnik** ’s last post, these things happens today as well. There are several newer cases were somone has been executed, but someone else confessed to the crime after the conviction (but prior to the execution), and where there is additional evidence suggesting the guilt of the one still on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975/26 "2003-06-20T22:52:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lorinada \* > \*\*Well, I spent ten days in jail for something I didn’t do. \*\* [ul] **CITE** [/ul] :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-who-are-convicted-of-crimes-are-innocent/182975.md?page=1)