OK, thanks- but those who were “exonerated while on death row” are hardly “innocents who were executed”, right?
And “exculpatory evidence turning up later”? How clear was this evidence? DNA tests showing the executed wasn’t the guy? Or some con saying he heard someone saying that they really did it?
1> True- not legally exonerated. But there are civil trials, and the good old “court of public opinion”. If, for instance, there was someone executed, and afterwards his family got ahold of the evidence and send it off to a private DNA lab, and it turned out that the blood which was used as evidence against our “murderer” as it was his blood type- did not have his DNA- AND, that DNA matched a known killer in the area- then I’d have to say that- even without an official finding- the man executed was innocent. But I have not seen any thing like this since 1976.
2> Could something like this not happen *after * 1976?
3> Your category is very close to my category 4, and your category 7 is basicly my category 5.
No, NO, NO! . I asked “of the 105, how many were in category 5? 4?” I was not guessing the numbers of innocents or guilty, I was asking how many of those whose convictions were overturned fit into each of my categories? Because- those in category 1 were certainly NOT “innocent” even though their convictions may have been overturned. I assume we can all agree to that? Those in category “5” are those we’d all agree were “innocents”, right? The relative “innocence” (as opposed to not-proven-guilty) of categories 2>4 can be debated. And, yes, that might make a good “GD”.
Still and all- although it is clear some dudes on Death Row have been exonerated, and doubt has been cast upon the guilt of some who were actually executed- I have not seen any of those which I would put into “category 5” where the executions occurred in the USA since 1976.
It varies. None, so far as I can tell, involve anything recent where a man was cleared post-execution by DNA evidence. Most of it appears to be evidence that would have helped the condemmned had it been admitted in trial, or would establish that person’s innocence if believed. A couple of cases from the early part of the 20th century are disturbing (deathbed confessions from the “real killer”, two men sentenced to die on the basis of a supposed confession overheard by a convict in spite of both men’s protestation that only one of them was the killer) and a couple of questionable inclusions that are still widely debated, like Bruno Hauptman and the Sacco and Vanzetti trial. Mostly the anecdotes are about executions in which the persons guilt was suspect (in some circumstances extremely suspect if the writer’s account is accurate), but as far as I can tell no 100%incontrovertable evidence that an innocent man has definitely been executed in America.
a) Agreed. Noone has been legally exonerated, so whoever claims otherwise is mistaken, even if it’s in the GD
b) No, the evidence is destroyed after an execution, various attempts to have such evidence retested has been opposed by the prosecution and failed in court
c) I think the “public court of opinion” only will accept DNA evidence, see 1b
I’m not involved in the DP debate, but have followed the issue for a few years. Given the high number of questionable cases since 1976 it’s extremely likely that someone innocent has been executed (see my example in the previous post and x 50)
Fair enough, I would only like to point out that the number of people convicted on circimstantial evidence, jailhouse snitches, appearant misconduct or testing which today is labeled highly inaccurate (for instance comparing hair under a microscope) is very high, and it still happens much more frequently that most people tend to believe.
:smack: :smack: :smack:
Sorry about that. Anyway, you’ll have to have a look at the list yourself. But I disagree that 5 (DNA) is the only option for innocence. “DNA-evidence” is not the sure thing people think it is. A complete DNA-sequence, yes, DNA-evidence, no.
And reading pravnik’s last post, these things happens today as well. There are several newer cases were somone has been executed, but someone else confessed to the crime after the conviction (but prior to the execution), and where there is additional evidence suggesting the guilt of the one still on the streets.