# How many stars safety rating would an M-1 Abrams get? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130 "2013-01-23T18:06:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/41 "2013-01-24T04:02:07Z")
I wonder how the fact that an M1 can literally explode would factor into it’s safety rating. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/42 "2013-01-24T04:07:20Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > While I know that this is factually true. . . I still wanna see it! Mythbusters episode 143. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/43 "2013-01-24T14:15:36Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I wonder how the fact that an M1 can literally explode would factor into it’s safety rating. Any vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine can explode. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/44 "2013-01-24T14:27:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I wonder how the fact that an M1 can literally explode would factor into it’s safety rating. The exploding bits have armor between them and the crew. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/45 "2013-01-24T15:10:53Z")
Well, except the loader, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/46 "2013-01-24T15:12:45Z")
T64 would get a poor safety rating. It’s autoloader would on occasion attempt to load the gunners leg into the breech. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/47 "2013-01-24T15:18:28Z")
I don’t think the NTHSA or NCAP ratings have a category for that. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/48 "2013-01-24T16:12:04Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Two tanks colliding at 45 mph does not result in the equivalent of a 90 mph crash, it is the equivalent of a 45 mph crash. I know, it sounds crazy, but it’s true. > > [Collision physics explanation needed | Sciforums - world events, science, religion, philosophy, and technology.](http://www.sciforums.com/%2520%253c/Collision-physics-explanation-needed-t-104387.html) It’s only true in the sense of high-school simplified physics. A tank crashing into a “regular” object (i.e., car, wall) at 45mph feels basically nothing. a tank crashing into a truly indeformable, unmovable, undestructible object is different than two tank crashing headlong at the same speed, they abosorb a lot of th energy, move and deform and lose mass. Not 90mph but they are different in real-world physics. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/49 "2013-01-24T16:17:55Z")
Anecdote time! My Dad was in WWII, US Infantry (69th Division, northern Europe). He once witnessed two Sherman tanks drive into each other at right angles at an intersection (they didn’t see each other coming). He said the _sound_ of the crash was amazing. I don’t know if anyone was hurt, though. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/50 "2013-01-24T16:43:20Z")
I am amused by the idea of a tank equipped with airbags. FIRE! _poof_ Damn it, not again! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/51 "2013-01-24T16:55:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, except the loader, presumably. The ammo is behind an armored door. It slides open just long enough to get a round and then it slides closed. You can lock it open but it is normally closed. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/52 "2013-01-24T17:03:19Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s only true in the sense of high-school simplified physics. > A tank crashing into a “regular” object (i.e., car, wall) at 45mph feels basically nothing. > a tank crashing into a truly indeformable, unmovable, undestructible object is different than two tank crashing headlong at the same speed, they abosorb a lot of th energy, move and deform and lose mass. Not 90mph but they are different in real-world physics. All undoubtedly true, but I was addressing the simple misconception regarding two objects colliding head-on having an impact equal to the sum of their velocities. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/53 "2013-01-24T17:19:34Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > …a tank crashing into a truly indeformable, unmovable, undestructible object is different than two tank crashing headlong at the same speed, they abosorb a lot of th energy, move and deform and lose mass. Not 90mph but they are different in real-world physics. I disagree. The two situations are basically identical. A tank moving at 45 mph that subsequently crashes into an immovable wall (like the side of a mountain or a cliff, for example) is essentially the same physical situation as a tank moving at 45 mph that subsequently collides head-on into another tank moving at the same speed in the opposite direction. In both cases, a given tank goes from 45 mph to zero, and thus has the same change in momentum in both cases. Also, in both cases, the tanks can each crumple up and deform in a similar fashion. The wall is unaffected in the first case, but so what? The situation that is truly different (i.e. less severe) is a tank moving at 45 mph that runs head-on into a stationary tank. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/54 "2013-01-24T17:25:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Everywhere as far as I know. Barring any weight rescriction and size constraints. I have certainly driven M1s on public streets. Military vehicles do not have to follow local registration or equipment laws. No plates, no inspection stickers. > > For the most part it does not make sense to do so. Very expensive in fuel costs. An inexperienced driver can tear the hell out of some asphalt. It makes more sense to trailer the tank to where it needs to go train. CHP: Step out of the tank. Now! Nut: No, officer, you drop you weapon. Now! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/55 "2013-01-24T17:30:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The ammo is behind an armored door. It slides open just long enough to get a round and then it slides closed. You can lock it open but it is normally closed. Well, yeah, but at some point the loader will actually be holding a round or one will be… chambered, or whatever you call a tank shell that’s ready to be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/56 "2013-01-24T18:06:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, yeah, but at some point the loader will actually be holding a round or one will be… chambered, or whatever you call a tank shell that’s ready to be fired. When you hold a round in your lap to cut down on the time it takes to reload it is unimaginatively called lap loading. Lap loading is dangerous and against regualtions. As a tank commander I would be pissed if my loader was doing that. A round in the breech is very safe. Surrounded by a huge hunk of steel and in a mechanism designed to funnel all the force out of the turret. And the turret has a very good fire suppression system. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/57 "2013-01-24T22:13:40Z")
Damn. A thread right in my wheelhouse, and I miss most of it. Most MBTs have so many different ways to cut, scrape, burn, crush, maim, spindle, fold, and mutilate it own crew _before_ it even sees combat that it’s not even funny. In the U.S. Armed Forces, any dangerous system has comprehensive safety guidlines, policies, and step-by-step procedures to prevent injury. As **RyJae** points out, you can’t fix a stupid driver short of whuppin’ his ass when he climbs out of the driver’s compartment. Almost every injury from an M-1 I’ve seen has been operator error; taking shortcuts on safety procedures, failing to utilize safety guards and barriers, failing to stay or keep errant body parts on the proper side of safety guards and barriers, stuff like that. If the “star rating” system could be negative, AFVs and MBTs in particular would earn them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/58 "2013-01-24T22:31:26Z")
I was wondering where the hell you were. You got the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/59 "2013-01-25T01:23:12Z")
_Spindle?_ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130/60 "2013-01-25T03:41:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Hmm sideways at 25mph? I have been on tanks at Fort Knox after an ice storm. You would think that a tank would crunch through the ice but the tracks do a good job distributing the weight. I have seen M1s sliding sideways down icy hills. So all you would need is a long enough icy hill for your test. Ooo! Ooo! Can we maybe work a treadmill into the test, too…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-stars-safety-rating-would-an-m-1-abrams-get/648130.md?page=4)