# How many states in the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267 "2002-07-22T20:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/21 "2002-07-23T00:24:35Z")
> [@](#): > > And Navassa Island is also claimed by Haiti. Wow! The U.S. has an honest-to-goodness disputed zone! [The CIA World Fact Book](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html) lists the following disputes involving the US: > [@](#): > > maritime boundary disputes with Canada (Dixon Entrance, Beaufort Sea, Strait of Juan de Fuca, Machias Seal Island); US Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay is leased from Cuba and only mutual agreement or US abandonment of the area can terminate the lease; Haiti claims Navassa Island; US has made no territorial claim in Antarctica (but has reserved the right to do so) and does not recognize the claims of any other nation; Marshall Islands claims Wake Island Yes, the “pig war” (Strait of Juan de Fuca) still isn’t settled, technically … Just in case anybody thinks the associated commonwealths / “Freely Associated States” / other miscellaneous dependencies is mondo screwed up, it’s not really much worse than the sort of arrangements a lot of European countries have wrt to the vestiges of their colonial empires. According to the Fact Book, France has 10 overseas dependencies, the UK has 15, the Netherlands still has Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles, and so on. And in most cases, these areas enjoy some very odd “special” relationship with that power. Most major nations also have a list of disputes going over various piddly bits of real estate. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/22 "2002-07-23T01:19:00Z")
**Sofa King** and **yabob** : Very well described. The US legally calls its dependencies “Possessions” or “Territories” (specifically, “Unincorporated Territories”, a concept the Supreme Court pulled out of their hats c. 1902 to explain how come all of a sudden the US ruled over colonies, “belonging to but not a part of” the US itself – before that, traditionally it was assumed Territories _were_ part of the US itself, just not States yet). More details: 1. USVI and Guam are considered “organized unincorporated territories” . This means there is one comprehensive Act of Congress – the “Organic Act” – that sets out how the territory is to be run and what are the powers and rights granted and reserved respectively to the local government, the US, and the local people. The people of both are automatically born US citizens. 2. American Samoa is an “unorganized” U.T., and no, it doesn’t mean anarchy, it means there is no single territorial Organic Act and it’s run according to various separate statutes and a lot of real power is vested in the Secretary of Interior. The Samoans are US “non-citizen nationals.” 3. The difference between the two “Autonomous” Commonwealths, as pointed out, is that NMI has a greater degree of exemptions from US law than PR, specially insofar as labor and immigration (for instance, a worker from Asia who is admitted to the NMI has not really “touched base” on US soil for minimum wage and free-movement-to-the-rest-of-the-nation purposes). Also, NMI does not elect a Congressional Delegate. Both the Northern Marianans and us Boricuas are born US citizens. 4. The three FAS’s , not considered “territories” have actual separate seats in the UN, apart from the USA, which none of the others do (though some have “observer” status on cultural or economic organizations). Their inhabitants are not US citizens. And it’s true, the remaining “empires” have a widely-ranging mess of various classifications of domains and lands. One size does NOT fit all, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/23 "2002-07-23T01:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > A few Americans I’ve asked also seem to believe firmly that there are 52 states.\*\* Maybe they thought you were asking them their IQ. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/24 "2002-07-23T03:17:47Z")
There was in fact another State, a “thing” called the “State of Franklin”, after Ben Franklin. And during its brief few years of vague existence, it was called a State. It was a small area around North Carolina and Tennessee, and some of the steps to become the 14th State were actually taken. I believe they even sent a non-voting representative to Congress. It is often referred to as the “Lost State of Franklin” because the history why or if it was not voted up or down seems to have been lost. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/25 "2002-07-23T03:41:01Z")
Well, since many people think that New Mexico is another country and lots of other odd ideas about the geography of our country are floating around, what is so unusual that they would not know how many states there are? Matter of fact for a larger percentage than we might want to admit the term “geography” is an unknown. ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/26 "2002-07-23T03:43:26Z")
People are screaming idiots. More people play cards than know the names of states. Most people know that they get two weeks vacaction out of 52 a year (in the U.S.) Therefore, there must be 52 states.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![bafaa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@bafaa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bafaa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/27 "2002-07-23T03:45:17Z")
I always assumed people were thinking of the Miss USA pageant. Don’t they have 52 contestants when you include DC and Puerto Rico? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/28 "2002-07-23T13:22:41Z")
**bfaa** , Miss Puerto Rico does NOT compete in the Miss USA pageant. That contest is a franchisee of Miss Universe Inc. (itself acquired some time back by Donald Trump) and this corporation, following the example of the Olympics, “grants” (more like sells) separate franchises to colonies, territories and dependencies. Miss Teen USA and the like DO sometimes include a PRican representative, but that’s more a combination of (a) an international version not existing or not paying any more in awards, so there’s no incentive to “play nation”, and (b) the US version not wanting to turn away a paying sponsor. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/29 "2002-07-23T16:08:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aahala \* > \*\*There was in fact another State, a “thing” called the “State of Franklin”, after Ben Franklin. And during its brief few years of vague existence, it was called a State. > > It was a small area around North Carolina and Tennessee, and some of the steps to become the 14th State were actually taken. I believe they even sent a non-voting representative to Congress.\*\* Ah, Franklin. I believe this was during the Articles of Confederation and when they were dropped, so was the nascent state. I’ll ask my sister – she was in junior high when we lived in Tennessee, so she’ll know. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/30 "2002-07-23T17:51:56Z")
There’s also the lost state of Jefferson. It was to be formed from Northern California and Southern Oregon, due to the residents there feeling underserved by their respective state gov’ts. The leaders had everything ready to go on Dec 6, 1941. The events of the next day overshadowed the movement, and it was abandoned during the war. Recently, there has been a revival, and one can listen to Jefferson Public Radio in the area. Personally, I wouldn’t mind splitting California in two somewhere in Santa Barbara county. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/31 "2002-07-23T19:00:43Z")
I also remember reading a National Geographic article that said that for some time a proposal was entertained to form a new state comprising western Washington and the Idaho panhandle. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/32 "2002-07-23T20:37:42Z")
Uh, I assume you meant _eastern_ Washington. Otherwise you end up with, um, bookends. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/33 "2002-07-25T05:42:01Z")
I once dated a girl who believed there were fifty-two states. (She also once asked me the difference between South America and South Africa.) The “other two” she was talking about were Hawaii and Alaska. (Guess she’d never heard the expression “the lower 48”.) This lends credibility to **CarnalK** ’s “memory trap” theory. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/34 "2002-07-25T06:34:41Z")
I’m actually more curious about “why so many people think there are 52 states”, which is a socio-psychological question, than about the geography/politics of how many states there really are or should be. Why not 49…or 53…? The answer that seems most plausible to me so far is that people vaguely remember the number is “around 50”. They come up with 50 as “a nice round number” then think, Oh, I need to add 2 for Hawaii and Alaska…52! [not 52 factorial, that would be a silly number of states.] ---
**Author:** ![Blunt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Blunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blunt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267/35 "2002-07-25T06:47:36Z")
This [website](http://www.123-lending-network.com/index.htm) says that “Your 2 minute application can reach lenders in Every Major City, in All 52 States.” I wonder if by saying “52 states” that they may mean the 50 states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. It wouldn’t be correct, but I can at least see where they’re comming from then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-states-in-the-usa/120267.md?page=1)