# How many times have Germany and France gone to war with each other **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457 "2004-08-11T23:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/1 "2004-08-11T23:50:11Z")
I know about WW1, WW2 and the franco prussian war (i assume the franco-prussian war still counts as a germany/france war). Were there other wars between the two countries. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/2 "2004-08-12T00:14:25Z")
“Germany” as a unified nation came into existence in modern times in 1871, so the three you list are the three modern events. But the Holy Roman Empire was effectively Germany with a few tag ends for the overwhelming majority of its existence. So we can start with the unnamed war ended with the Treaty of Verdun between two of Charlemagne’s heirs who were respectively kings of the Franks and the Germans, and continue until approximately the 30 Years War, to identify wars in which France and Germany fought on opposite sides, some of them wars specifically between them and others wars in which they were involved on opposite sides. And I believe you will find there were a plethora of them in the 850-1650 time frame we’re looking at. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/3 "2004-08-12T00:22:25Z")
Twice: 1914 & 1939. Prior to this there was no single Germany. But of course you want the number of times some German-speaking political entity fought France, you’d probably want to start when the Franks, a Germanic tribe, stopped being Germanic and started being French. The baptism of Clovis works for me (but, this being the SDMB, someone will have something). Then you need a cliker-counter and an exhaustive history book. Francois Guizot would be a good author for that (again, another SDMBer may have a more thourough historian for your counting, but none better for your insomnia). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/4 "2004-08-12T01:40:07Z")
Yeah after i posted this i realized that Germany didn’t exist until the 1870s and that i wouldn’t get a complete answer due to this. Including germanic cultures/languages/geographic areas would include wars like the Napoleonic wars when future German territorites like Prussia fought against the French. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/5 "2004-08-12T02:42:46Z")
Taking the question in the broader interpretation: World War II World War I Franco-Prussian War Napoleonic Wars American Revolution (an iffy one - Hessians fought for England and France was allied with the colonies) Seven Years War War of the Austrian Succession War of the Spanish Sucession War of the Grand Alliance Thirty Years War (although in most of the earlier wars, German powers were fighting on both sides) ---
**Author:** ![Thor1965](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Thor1965](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thor1965)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/6 "2014-02-01T22:01:13Z")
Check out [http://www.historyguy.com/How\_Many\_Wars\_Were\_Fought\_Between\_France\_and\_Germany\_Before\_World\_War\_One.htm](http://www.historyguy.com/How_Many_Wars_Were_Fought_Between_France_and_Germany_Before_World_War_One.htm) to see the list of wars between Prussia and France. Prussia became Prussia in 1701, and it took over leadership of Germany in 1871. Lots of wars between them… ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-times-have-germany-and-france-gone-to-war-with-each-other/259457/7 "2014-02-05T08:12:52Z")
My immediate, sarcastic, answer was going to be: just the once. Although there _have_ been occasional cease-fires, … > [@Polycarp](#): > > So we can start with the unnamed war ended with the Treaty of Verdun between two of Charlemagne’s heirs who were respectively kings of the Franks and the Germans, That’s the one I had in mind. As I understand it, Charlemagne left his two most powerful sons the easternmost and westernmost parts of his empire, and gave a smaller area in the middle to a younger son to serve as a buffer, believing that the powerful sons would fight _each other_, but that neither would fight their younger brother. Then the younger brother died without an heir, and the two fought over control of his lands. And control of that land has been a major issue of contention between the two powers ever since.